Extra Wire - Need Help - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By rjniles
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 07-06-2017, 02:31 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,483
Rewards Points: 7,884
Default

Extra Wire - Need Help


I am replacing my kitchen counter receptacles with GFCI's and I got stumped on the first receptacle. See photo below. It has the unexpected red wire, and the tab on the hot side is removed.

Upper and lower receptacles both have power. There are no switches in the kitchen other than lights, and with all switches in the house turned off, both receptacles have power. The breaker seems to be two 15A breakers tied together. Are the two receptacles technically on different circuits?

The house is a 1996 build in Ontario.

How do I connect a standard GFCI to this set-up ?
Attached Thumbnails
Extra Wire - Need Help-switch.jpg   Extra Wire - Need Help-panel.jpg  
SPS-1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-06-2017, 02:51 PM   #2
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 10,005
Rewards Points: 694
Default


You have split wired receptacles. You can't install GFCI recpts. Use 2 pole GFCI breakers .
Oso954 likes this.
rjniles is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rjniles For This Useful Post:
Jim Port (07-06-2017)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-06-2017, 04:10 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,483
Rewards Points: 7,884
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


Thanks.

Yeah, I was just googling the subject and seems that the split 15A receptacles are how it was done in that era. The receptacle on the other side of the sink gonna be same thing. Two others further away not split.

Worst part is, I don't really care that they are not GFCI anyways. There is pretty much nothing plugged into them anyways. Just that with the new backsplash in the photo, the old white receptacles don't look right, and I got these brushed nickel colored GFCI's and screwless wall plates. Figured I would bring it up to latest code as long as I was replacing the receptacles.

So I guess I can replace two receptacles with GFCI's, try to find two matching standard receptacles, and try to return two GFCI's. Is that my only option ? But even that sounds stupid -- I end up with GFCIs away from the sink, and standard near the sink.

I don't mind changing a switch, but not really comfortable going into the panel. If I have an electrician visiting one day, I will try to remember that the breaker should be swapped. But like I said, that's not really a big concern anyways.

Last edited by SPS-1; 07-06-2017 at 04:12 PM.
SPS-1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-06-2017, 04:23 PM   #4
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,813
Rewards Points: 23,968
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


two options.
Leave as is or replace double pole breaker with double pole GFCI breaker.

Code changed around 2001 I think to allow for 20 amp non split kitchen counter receptacles. This allows the use of a GFCI receptacle instead of the double pole breaker. Split wired 15 amp are still allowed as well.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 05:22 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,483
Rewards Points: 7,884
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


Live and learn.

Now I know about split receptacles.

So I actually have (6) 15-AMP circuits over my kitchen counter. That should be enough for the adapter to my phone, and the electrics to my natural gas stove.

Last edited by SPS-1; 07-06-2017 at 05:33 PM.
SPS-1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 06:05 PM   #6
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 10,005
Rewards Points: 694
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


No sure about Canadian code but an option might be to eliminate the split wire. In 1 location cap the red wire and install GFCI on the white / black. At the other location cap the black and install GFCI on red/white. A northern electrical needs to review this.

Sent from my RCT6203W46 using Tapatalk
__________________
My electrical answers are based on 2014 NEC, you may have local amendments.

Location: Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:01 PM   #7
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,813
Rewards Points: 23,968
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


Canadian code prior to allowing the 20 amp circuits was to have a minimum of 3 split wired 15 amp circuits on the kitchen counters. Fridge also is a dedicated circuit.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:32 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,483
Rewards Points: 7,884
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


joed, 3 split receptacles ? I have two split duplex receptacles --- not sure if you call that 2 or 4. Plus two more standard receptacles. Did that meet code at the time ?

You mentioned that the split receptacles were still allowed. I assume I am grandfathered, but if built today, anything within 59" of the sink should be GFCI, right ?
SPS-1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:39 PM   #9
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,813
Rewards Points: 23,968
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Re: Extra Wire - Need Help


3 splits, 6 circuits was the standard.

When GFCI became code (around 2012)20 amp non split were allowed to accommodate gfci receptacles instead of breakers.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Digitial Timer in 3 Gang box with (2) 3way switches and 1 single pole..confused. BCS Electrical 33 03-20-2016 11:30 PM
Wiring "C" wire issue RetiredSoldier HVAC 3 01-19-2014 12:17 PM
Splice or replace entire wire? Septic Pump bsmith6356 Electrical 5 03-18-2013 06:44 PM
Ceiling fan and wire gauge needs? greentrees Electrical 6 05-01-2012 01:05 AM
extra wire in remodel recess cans DIYGST Electrical 11 01-08-2010 05:34 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts