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Old 03-20-2010, 04:38 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
only under certain circumstances plus it speaks ONLY to a double insulated pump motor and did you catch the part about a replacement motor?

I never said it couldn't be. I said it is not required to be unless other reasons require it.
I give up. I guess your master's overrides mine.
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:01 PM   #77
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One of the 7 items required to be bonded is 'electrical equipment'. So, by default, if the pool has electrical equipment, the equipotential plane will be bonded to GE system.

The double insulated motor is verbiage describing an exception.

The replacement motor verbiage only relates to the length of the conductor.


correct?
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:16 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmran View Post
One of the 7 items required to be bonded is 'electrical equipment'. So, by default, if the pool has electrical equipment, the equipotential plane will be bonded to GE system.

The double insulated motor is verbiage describing an exception.

The replacement motor verbiage only relates to the length of the conductor.


correct?
That verbiage relates to the fact that a DI motor may not have a bonding lug in which case the bonding wire must be attached to the equipment grounding conductor of the DI motor cicuit. Probably at the junction box for the motor switch.

Last edited by brric; 03-20-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:03 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I think 4 pages of discussion is more then enough

...but maybe not
As long as its kept civil....not that it wasn't

Thanks
Dave. Thanks for the change of mind and heart. (Not that they weren't in the right place. But you're right. Sometimes a debate can really get heated. But we're all civilized people, Huh!)!
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:07 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
Dave. Thanks for the change of mind and heart. (Not that they weren't in the right place. But you're right. Sometimes a debate can really get heated. But we're all civilized people, Huh!)!
I was tired...had my threads confused
Too busy working on the house this week

My pool is only "bonded" to my pump -240v..not GFCI (yet)
I know it goes into the concrete pool deck & over to where the diving board used to be
I'm not sure if it goes to the metal brackets in the cement that hold the handrails/steps that go into the pool
I'm not even sure how old the pool is

Its all fed from a detached pool cabana w/60a sub & 2 ground rods



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Old 03-21-2010, 07:13 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I was tired...had my threads confused
Too busy working on the house this week

My pool is only "bonded" to my pump -240v..not GFCI (yet)
I know it goes into the concrete pool deck & over to where the diving board used to be
I'm not sure if it goes to the metal brackets in the cement that hold the handrails/steps that gpo into the pool
I'm not even sure how old the pool is

Its all fed from a detached pool cabana w/60a sub & 2 ground rods
I would expect it to be bonded only to the pump motor, and consequently through the frame of the motor it is connnected to the grounding electrode system by the equipment grounding conductor of the pump motor circuit.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:40 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave
My pool is only "bonded" to my pump
Corollary to the definition of bonding -- If A e.g. pool metal parts is bonded to B e.g. pump motor and B is bonded to C e.g. ground wire in cable then A is bonded to C.

However some have interpreted the NEC to say that if two 2 prong receptacle locations near one another are retrofitted with 3 prong receptacles and separately run ground wires, the ground wires must both be home runs to the grounding electrode system (or to the panel where the hot wire is fed, respectively).
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Last edited by AllanJ; 03-21-2010 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:54 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
Corollary to the definition of bonding -- If A e.g. pool metal parts is bonded to B e.g. pump motor and B is bonded to C e.g. ground wire in cable then A is bonded to C.

However some have interpreted the NEC to say that if two 2 prong receptacle locations near one another are retrofitted with 3 prong receptacles and separately run ground wires, the ground wires must both be home runs to the grounding electrode system (or to the panel where the hot wire is fed, respectively).
That, (As you state) is definitely a wrong and illogical interpretaion of the Code. The only time this requirement must be met would be if an Isolated Ground is called for.!
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:02 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
That, (As you state) is definitely a wrong and illogical interpretaion of the Code. The only time this requirement must be met would be if an Isolated Ground is called for.!
This is an addendum to the previous post; In all other situations, the NEC calls for the Green wire to be Bonded to the Box (if the "Bare", copper wire is present and is attached to it. Regardless, if the box is metal or plastic. But the reality is that in retrofits, the box will be metal.)!
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:03 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
This is an addendum to the previous post; In all other situations, the NEC calls for the Green wire to be Bonded to the Box (if the "Bare", copper wire is present and is attached to it. Regardless, if the box is metal or plastic. But the reality is that in retrofits, the box will be metal.)!
There is ASOLUTELY no reason to attach any wire to any plastic box ever.
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:42 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by brric View Post
There is ASOLUTELY no reason to attach any wire to any plastic box ever.
Sure there is. What about when NM cable enters a box? An attachment (connection) is required. What you mean to say is that it is probably not necessary to bond the plastic box to the grounding system.
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Old 03-21-2010, 04:00 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by jlmran View Post
Sure there is. What about when NM cable enters a box? An attachment (connection) is required. What you mean to say is that it is probably not necessary to bond the plastic box to the grounding system.
An attachment is made to a device not a box.
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Old 03-21-2010, 04:52 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by jlmran View Post
Sure there is. What about when NM cable enters a box? An attachment (connection) is required. What you mean to say is that it is probably not necessary to bond the plastic box to the grounding system.
The wire is not attached to the box
On double gangs & bigger there is a plastic clamp that the wire slides under
On single gang new work you punch out a plastic knockout & the wire enters
No attachement is made in either case
I've yet to install any plastic box, new or old work that has anything that the romex attaches to



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Old 03-21-2010, 05:37 PM   #89
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So does a violation occur if a NM cable connector is used in a plastic box? Such as one equipped with a 1/2" knockout?

Last edited by jlmran; 03-21-2010 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:15 PM   #90
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I've yet to see any 1/2" knockout on an ordinary household box
I even have a 6x6" box on the front of my house for some buried circuits & the NM cable that enters from the house is not held down in any manner
It's simply wire nutted to THWN, neither are connected to the box

Some of my outside boxes are metal & in that case they came with a screw to connect the ground

Its not a violation to connect the wire in some manner to a plastic box
There just isn't any reason to do so



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