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Old 01-22-2010, 07:32 PM   #1
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Code compliant to...


...pigtail 12 AWG to 6 AWG in a deep outlet box? Is it even possible to do so using wire nuts?
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:43 PM   #2
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It is possible to splice a #12 to a #6 using a large blue wirenut. Why would you want to so?
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:59 PM   #3
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This is done on a regular basis in large buildings to minimize voltage drop over long distances.

As stated above, just use big blue wirenuts.

Rob
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:01 PM   #4
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Really, so how do you ger that #6 under the lug of a 20A breaker
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:07 PM   #5
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We don't. That's why we need to splice the #12 to the #6.

Just run the #12s from the panel to a box somewhere, then run the #6s over the long distance, and if they're feeding a receptacle or a light circuit, splice #12 pigtails at the receptacle box.

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Old 01-22-2010, 08:13 PM   #6
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Why not just run #10 then tap off with #12.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #7
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I'm thinking maybe this person already has #6 in place & wants to convert it to use as a 20a circuit



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Old 01-22-2010, 08:21 PM   #8
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Scuba, read what he wrote. They run #12 from the panel first and then tap off with #6. Depending on distance of the #12 from the panel to the junction box there will be a voltage drop. Adding #6 will not increase the voltage drop.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:32 PM   #9
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If the circuit is 120 volts, and the load is several hundred feet away from the panel, #10 wouldn't be big enough. This is especially true if the load is a motor that needs minimal voltage drop for a hard-starting machine.

Some examples are a machine tool at the back of a warehouse, an RV receptacle at a house with a large lot, parking lot lights, ballfield lights, and more that I can't think of at the moment.

Street lighting is likely the largest wire I've pulled for voltage drop. I've pulled 4/0 copper for 30 amp circuits that were over a mile long. This wasn't spliced with a blue wirenut though! More like a crimp connector designed for the purpose.

I've pulled some pretty good-sized wire for stock water tank heaters on farms, though voltage drop is less of an issue here.

A couple of months ago, I pulled a 20 amp circuit with #4s from a panel to the top of a water tank for instrumentation. It was about 800' total. I pigtailed #12s inside the panel using a reducing crimp splice, insulated it with heat-shrink, and used crimp terminations at the disconnect at the top of the tank.

I realize this isn't exactly DIY, but the same principles apply.

Rob
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O Engr View Post
...pigtail 12 AWG to 6 AWG in a deep outlet box? Is it even possible to do so using wire nuts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIVOLT View Post
Scuba, read what he wrote. They run #12 from the panel first and then tap off with #6. Depending on distance of the #12 from the panel to the junction box there will be a voltage drop. Adding #6 will not increase the voltage drop.
I'm referring to the OP
I'm thinking he has the #6 circuit & wants to convert it



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Old 01-22-2010, 08:43 PM   #11
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I spent 20 years as a commercial electrical contractor before I became an electrical inspector. Please do not lecture me. My thinking was why not run #10 instead of #12 because of the voltage drop then you could continue with #12 if it is only for an outlet.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I'm referring to the OP
I'm thinking he has the #6 circuit & wants to convert it
Basically correct. Planning to run #6 for future 50A 220V, but would like to use it as 20A 110V for now. Would rather not run a 12 AND a 6 all the way back to the panel.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:33 PM   #13
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I very rarely call anyone out by name here, but I feel a need to in this thread.

HIVOLT; I wasn't trying to lecture you or anyone else. My posts were simply a response to your statement in post #2 "Why would you want to do so"

My response was nothing more than an answer to your question.

Your response in post #4 appeared to show a lack of experience, so I tried to explain it a bit further.

Next, you countered with "Why not run #10 and tap off with #12."

My next post was an attempt to explain why running #10s and tapping off with #12s doesn't always work. Sometimes, larger wire is needed.

I'm sorry that you got the idea I was trying to lecture you, I was simply trying to explain how larger wire is used on small circuits. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rob
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
If the circuit is 120 volts, and the load is several hundred feet away from the panel, #10 wouldn't be big enough. This is especially true if the load is a motor that needs minimal voltage drop for a hard-starting machine.

Some examples are a machine tool at the back of a warehouse, an RV receptacle at a house with a large lot, parking lot lights, ballfield lights, and more that I can't think of at the moment.

Street lighting is likely the largest wire I've pulled for voltage drop. I've pulled 4/0 copper for 30 amp circuits that were over a mile long. This wasn't spliced with a blue wirenut though! More like a crimp connector designed for the purpose.

I've pulled some pretty good-sized wire for stock water tank heaters on farms, though voltage drop is less of an issue here.

A couple of months ago, I pulled a 20 amp circuit with #4s from a panel to the top of a water tank for instrumentation. It was about 800' total. I pigtailed #12s inside the panel using a reducing crimp splice, insulated it with heat-shrink, and used crimp terminations at the disconnect at the top of the tank.

I realize this isn't exactly DIY, but the same principles apply.

Rob
why would you run a 20a circuit 800' ? i would of set a sub panel at some point to feed it off of myself
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:38 PM   #15
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The 20 amp circuit went to the top of a water tank for a remote level indicator, an intrusion alarm, and a radio transmitter.

It was 3 devices, total load was about 2 amps. A sub-panel really wasn't necessary.

Rob
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