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Old 12-26-2009, 04:12 PM   #1
 
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Breaker compatabiliy?


I'm hoping to add (DIY) a 240V circuit to my existing power panel but encountered a problem that I have not figured out how to resolve. I only have 1 slot remaining and I need to install a 20A 2-pole breaker. Some info:
a. My panel has only Cutler-Hammer BR type breakers.
b. The panel itself is a "Murray".
b. All the existing single pole breakers are already "tandem" breakers.
c. I have several existing 2-pole breakers that appear to be full-size.

My primary question is if Cutler-Hammer makes such a thing as a thin 2-pole breaker? Or, is it a option to use a compatable breaker of a different manufacturer? If so, how do I know what will fit? Otherwise, is my only option to install a subpanel? Thanks for any help....
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:16 PM   #2
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A thin reg pole breaker pulls power from the same hot leg
So I do not think its possible to have a 2 pole thin breaker as it would be pulling power from the same leg

But I have square D panels...others may be different
Best bet may be a sub-panel...gives you future expansion
What size is your service feed ? 100a ....200a ?



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Old 12-26-2009, 04:22 PM   #3
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Can you run the model number to us so that way we can able indentify it correct senice you mention tandam breakers is about full in there.

That may raise new issue if overcrowding in there so the model number will able verify it to us so we can go from there and we can able give you the correct breaker number to fit in this one without any issue.

Merci,Marc
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:23 PM   #4
 
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Thanks for the reply. My main is 200A. I thought about a sub-panel but hoping to extinguish my question about options due to cost of course. Other thing is... that I'd be pretty comfortable w/installing the single circuit myself, I'm only running it about 20 feet. But, not sure If I'm comfortable with installing a subpanel which I'm sure is a different ballgame..
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:27 PM   #5
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Provided the tandems are OK in your panel, you should be able to replace one of the double pole breakers with a quad breaker. (2 doubles or a double and 2 singles in one)

A Murray panel should have Murray (Siemens) breakers in it, not cutler hammer BR.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:28 PM   #6
 
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The Murray panel door states:

Catalogue number LC220PC
Model 18 Type 1 enclosure
Murray type G panelboard

Again, thanks for any help...
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkcollector View Post
Provided the tandems are OK in your panel, you should be able to replace one of the double pole breakers with a quad breaker. (2 doubles or a double and 2 singles in one)

A Murray panel should have Murray (Siemens) breakers in it, not cutler hammer BR.
Junkcollector .,

Just give you a head up with Murray load centres they will work either way all it depending on the model number on the load centre that will give the answer to correct breaker useage.

Merci,Marc
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
A Murray panel should have Murray (Siemens) breakers in it, not cutler hammer BR.
as long as the breaker is UL listed to be used in the panel, you can legally do it. CH is probably the most aggressive manufacturer in regards to getting their breakers listed for use in other manufacturers panels. Offhand I cannot tell you if this is specifically legal or not but I would venture to guess it is.

and this panel is also known as a LC2040XXXX apparently so tandems would be acceptable in every slot from what I can find.

Last edited by nap; 12-26-2009 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:39 PM   #9
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if your confortable installinga 240V plug you should be fine installing a subpanel next your other panel. It will just be like installing your 240V plug but in a bigger box and a few minor differences. If you want more details before you decide to do it let us know.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:41 PM   #10
 
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Junkcollector...I already have one quad breaker, so you may have answered one of my questions here because on one side (with the empty slot) I've got two - 50 amp 2-pole breakers and two 30 amp 2-pole breakers. They all are full size. Could I just replace those with a couple of quad breakers to save room?
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:43 PM   #11
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I did do little digging and acourding to my catalog book { it is printed in French so I have to transalted to ya }

The BR series should not be in that box at all I know it stated it will fit but the feet is the issue.

Really it should be use the Seamenis Q series breaker to fit in this one in correct fashon and unforetally you allready ran into major issue this load centre is only listed for 20 full sized breakers so only way you can slove it is put in new load centre.

But not sure if the catalog stated that it have 200 amp main breaker in there allready so please verify the main breaker it will be stamped on the handle { becarefull if you have red handle verison it is very senstive to trip out and hard to get back on and they have couple issue with burnted connection from main breaker to bussbar }

Merci,Marc
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Really it should be use the Seamenis Q series breaker to fit in this one in correct fashon and unforetally you allready ran into major issue this load centre is only listed for 20 full sized breakers so only way you can slove it is put in new load centre.

c
I'll take your word on this as I am not utilizing the resources you are. I had been finding the LC220P listed alternatively as a LC2040XXXXX which would indicate tandems acceptable but one often gets improper info from non-manufacturer sources.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
I'll take your word on this as I am not utilizing the resources you are. I had been finding the LC220P listed alternatively as a LC2040XXXXX which would indicate tandems acceptable but one often gets improper info from non-manufacturer sources.

True Nap that one thing I am aware with some loadcentre they did change some infomation along the way espcally when they were brought out by Seameins so I did do little more cross refering and it did stated 20 space load centre but never mention about tandems at all so I am pretty sure it is listed for full size unless Murphy did add info inside the tub that will have direct answer to the whole thing.


Merci,Marc
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:57 PM   #14
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it also seems that a CL series Cutler Hammer is (I believe) the proper CH breaker so as such, all the BR's are technically illegal. Not positive of that though.


Due to all the possible inappropriate situations, I would seriously consider a new panel.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:57 PM   #15
 
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Hmm...interesting and thank you for the (informal) information. I purchased this house about 6 years ago as new construction. A local company, I would not be very happy w/them if their contractor didn't use compatable products...But regardless, sounds like unfortunately for me the subpanel is the most logical path. I probably need to do some more research and I really appreciate your help..
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