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Old 10-03-2014, 01:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
The energy put into your wiring is a function of the energy density, the length of wire and the orientation to the pulse...with parallel being the worse.

If in fact you are subjected to an EMP, protecting your wiring is the least of your worries.
Thanks for the physics on EMP surges. I'm still trying to learn all I can.

Regarding "least of worries," I hear what you are trying to say, but initially, protecting ones household electrical stuff is very important. That is all that an EMP can do damage to. For example; if ones generator still ran and their lights and microwave, etc., still operated, the near term could be made much more tollorable. After some days when resources become scarace, then a different set of problems emerges. But those days before running out of generator fuel could be used to help secure a longer term future. And eventually, the power will return, even if it's years. When it does, it would be nice to have all your electrics functioning - assuming one is still alive.

I really don't believe in just rolling over and doing nothing when the brown stuff hits the fan.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:30 AM   #17
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There will be no power to feed your house in case of an EMP event.
Yes, that's true, except for the generator. But even if the generator is inoperable, the power will eventually return, and when it does, appliences, electronics, etc will be a long time getting replaced (manufactured). During that time, having a radio, lights, AC, microwave, etc. that still work would sure be nice.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:09 AM   #18
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I think the we need more detail of the concern, or what the OP means in that EMP is a broad term. If the concern is a solar storm those effect powerlines/utility power transformers and cause blackouts.
My understanding is that both solar storms and nuclear based EMP's affect/distroy power line transformers. Solar events happen over a longer period of time and generate much lower frequency surges which tranlates into having time to disconnect power, and stand alone electronics, including vehicle computers that are less likely to be fried.

A nuclear based EMP produces much higher frequencies and happens very quickly (microseconds(?)). In this case, no simple disconnects are fast enough and even if they were, the higher frequency radiation can still induce distructive voltage surges on very short conductors, like the wiring in one's computer, etc.

This higher frequency radiation (shorter pulse), generally can only travel line of sight. In my case, living near the coast and shielded by high mountains from a single nuclear detonation over the center of the US means that my damage would be mainly from what the power lines conduct in. Theroretically, little damage may happen from direct radiation. Therefore, having the combination of a fast surge protector and quick power disconnect, could make a big difference. Especially if there is a follow up detonation (skipping details), or other secondary surges coming down the power lines.

The only information I can find leaves things very sketchy with no real world way of testing for such an event before it happens. So my best defense may or may not be good enough. Sort of like building a sea wall to protect ones vacation home.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:17 AM   #19
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A surge suppressor is designed to be, essentially, sacrificial. Let it roast; it will have done all it can do for you anyway. Shunt trip devices and designs can get seriously costly, and if it comes to that, I'd say we are all in a world of hurt beyond just house power. I personally see no real benefit to the expense and effort (but that's just me).

But if you are hellbent on doing something, you might want to touch base with one of the doomsday-prepper companies. They are geared toward bad juju, and can probably tell you what you might need/ want for the Apocolypse.
I hear you and as noted above, a shunt breaker for my box costs $4,000!!!

Had not thought of checking with a prepper company.

Thanks
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:16 AM   #20
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Well, it's sort of like fire insurance on you home. We almost never need it, but it sure is nice when it is needed.

Really?!!! Nice to have? The world goes berserk and nuclear bombs are detonated and you want to protect your frying pan and microwave.

Live for today. You can't do enough to protect from such a negative scenario. Fill in the bunker and go on a nice vacation instead.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:55 AM   #21
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Worrying about nuclear EMP is probably a lower order disaster than the much more likely attack on our infrastructure using the Internet. Google "stuxnet" and see if that is a concern.
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:33 PM   #22
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Automatic emergency disconnect of main power to house


Fact is, a directed solar storm from a large CME would wreak havoc. Forget nuclear war stuff. I get where he's coming from. There's the place somewhere between slight damage and world disaster he's preparing for. You or I don't have to understand it or project a belief towards him. He came seeking advice and I find it a little interesting regardless of what I feel is worth worrying about.
IMO

PS. Water, fire, shelter, food and guns would be my priorities. Worst case

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Old 10-03-2014, 01:28 PM   #23
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Worrying about nuclear EMP is probably a lower order disaster than the much more likely attack on our infrastructure using the Internet. Google "stuxnet" and see if that is a concern.
Yes, I'm familiar with "Stuxnet" and a variety of other end of world possibilities. But for the sake of learning anything, one needs to address one thing at a time, and this is but one of the many. The theme I often hear is "like" - why buy fire insurance when one's house can be distroyed by earthquakes, hurricanes, mud slides, gang of hoodlums, etc., etc. And, addressing the concern of loosing my house to termites, to a fire insurance company, would be like addresing my concern of Stuxnet to this electrical forum. One needs to focus on the main theme of the group like - main power disconnnet hardware.

My only agenda here is to learn more about this issue to see if there is a practical way of fortifieing this part of my life, that I'm unaware of.

Thanks for your thoughts. Your points are well taken.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:35 PM   #24
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Fact is, a directed solar storm from a large CME would wreak havoc. Forget nuclear war stuff. I get where he's coming from. There's the place somewhere between slight damage and world disaster he's preparing for. You or I don't have to understand it or project a belief towards him. He came seeking advice and I find it a little interesting regardless of what I feel is worth worrying about.
IMO

PS. Water, fire, shelter, food and guns would be my priorities. Worst case
You hit the nail on the head! I agree with everything you wrote. And your list of priorities are priority #1 - and done.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by clw1963 View Post
Fact is, a directed solar storm from a large CME would wreak havoc. Forget nuclear war stuff. I get where he's coming from. There's the place somewhere between slight damage and world disaster he's preparing for. You or I don't have to understand it or project a belief towards him. He came seeking advice and I find it a little interesting regardless of what I feel is worth worrying about.
IMO

PS. Water, fire, shelter, food and guns would be my priorities. Worst case
I agree the solar storm is a real concern. Those effect power grids the most. A serve enough solar storm causes geomagnetic currents that put DC power on AC transmission lines. That DC power can overheat very large power transformers (such as those in the several hundred MVA range that tie the regional bulk power system to local transmission lines) to the point of failure as well as tripping generation off line. To a lesser degree electronics can also get fried.


Around here we got walloped by Hurricane Sandy and some places had no power for more than a week... lets just say I know what end of the world feels like.
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:08 PM   #26
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Automatic emergency disconnect of main power to house


We had a crew out on long island from here for two weeks and didn't want to come home because there was so much to do.

FWIW... Several years ago a certain make of Nokia phone all took a dump on the same day, across carriers. At the same time I read of a solar flare that had occurred, not at the exact moment this occurred. Nothing said about the 2 events being related. I always wondered if maybe the protection for the device wasn't up to standards or just weak sensitive electronics. In my mind, even if not related it is a sign of what could happen. Just think of how we spend money.

Last edited by clw1963; 10-03-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:14 PM   #27
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We had a crew out on long island from here for two weeks and didn't want to come home because there was so much to do.
Id imagine. The east coast was trashed.
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:32 PM   #28
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If the you know what really hits the fan !
Then I would be more worried about the idiots running about.
Panic will be the enemy.
We survived without electricity and cell phones
I am sure we can do it again for a while if need be.
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