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Old 04-12-2010, 10:25 AM   #16
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the thing that i'm wondering is how did they get away with a number 8 aluminum for a forty amp electric range....it should have been a number 6.
It should have been #6-3 and not 8-2 AL. There are a lot of things in this house that are halfass. It will have a 30 amp breaker on it now..

I'm planning to do a kitchen remodel at some point at which case I'll have a gas range and electric oven. I'll be ripping out the 100 amp service and putting in a 200 amp service too. At that point it will probably make sense to rip out all the aluminum and run copper everywhere including back to the range area and HVAC. On the remodel, the electric oven is moving to another wall..

What is the point of 4 conductor to the range anyway? Both neutral and ground are tied together at the panel. Why the redundancy? Does someone have a usecase that shows why this became code?



-Jeff
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:49 AM   #17
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the neutral is required for the 120V portion of your range...such as the timers and clock. If there is no neutral and the ground is use for this purposed(tied onto neutral on plug) then you are using your ground as a current carrying conductor and could get seriously hurt. Not to mention the fact that it's never a good idea to have power going through a bare wire. The ground is also undersized because it's for safety not function therefore it's not rated to carry as much current back and the neutral would be. It could infact start a fire under the right circumstances.
Lets take a look at this scenario.
Your have a white and a black at a plug and no ground. If you tie the white into the box then effectively you've livened up the casing of that box with whatever is returning on the neutral.
If the white and black are tied into the plug as normal then if the black or white wire make contact with the box the box will become part of the circuit potentially doing serious damage to life and property.
If theres a ground installed in this circuit you've effectively created a dead short if either of the current carrying wires touch the box and the breaker will trip and save you or you family getting hurt.

Last edited by andrew79; 04-12-2010 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:10 PM   #18
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the neutral is required for the 120V portion of your range..
Got it. That's all I needed...
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:21 PM   #19
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Monitor the input power at the range with a DVM while you turn off the range from being full on.
If the voltage increases 3% to 5% or less you might be OK for voltage drop.
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:14 PM   #20
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Monitor the input power at the range with a DVM while you turn off the range from being full on.
If the voltage increases 3% to 5% or less you might be OK for voltage drop.
explain please....this doesn't make any sense to me.
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:51 PM   #21
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Yes please explain that, it is very unlikely in a regular house that you would have to worry about voltage drop on your range wire.

Andrew, first off its nice to see another Canadian on here, and if the poster who mentioned to test the incoming power is the person I think he is be prepared for a long rambling on why and how, he seems to describe everything over everybodys head.
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:14 PM   #22
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Yes please explain that, it is very unlikely in a regular house that you would have to worry about voltage drop on your range wire.

Andrew, first off its nice to see another Canadian on here, and if the poster who mentioned to test the incoming power is the person I think he is be prepared for a long rambling on why and how, he seems to describe everything over everybodys head.
This site has been great...keeps my brain working and it's very interesting getting to know the differences between our code and the U.S....i was beginning to think i was the lone maple leaf here

irregardless of what the voltage drop is....you HAVE to have #8 aluminum for a 30A circuit and you HAVE to install #6 aluminum for a 40A circuit unless you install some special 125 degree celcius cable to handle the amprage. This is just simple code. The OP already stated it was only 35 feet...not enough for voltage drop there.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:10 AM   #23
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explain please....this doesn't make any sense to me.
To check cable/connection integrity you could check cable voltage drop at some current, but this would require long test leads. You could use an extension cord for these voltage sensing leads, but. . .

another way is to measure the change in voltage at the destination end of the cable while switching a heavy load on and off.

Let's say a 30A oven gives a 3% voltage drop @ 240v [7.2v] @ 30A in a good cable. With the oven "on" you read, I dunno', 235.4 vac.
When you switch the oven off the voltage jumps up to 242.6 vac. This is a good cable with good connections because the voltage change is less than or equal to 7.2 v.

The problem is that the 240v varies a bit, so I usually repeat this measurement a few times to get a better idea of the voltage difference. It also helps to have a 4-1/2 digit DVM.

With this method I found a wirenut that had a 0.5vac drop across it at 10A, giving a contact impedance of 50 milliohms. Dissipating 5w, it probably got pretty hot.
Redoing the splice reduced the voltage to "zero."

Last edited by Yoyizit; 04-13-2010 at 08:13 AM.
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