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Old 04-29-2010, 07:23 PM   #31
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If its in an unfinished area it has to be GFCI protected
Anything you run/extend that is new has to be meet new codes



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Old 04-29-2010, 08:28 PM   #32
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I assume that you are asking if you can install a junction box and put in place the GFCI at the new location. Yes you can. BTW, to let you know, I still have four non-GFCI protected outlets in my basement that where installed in 2003 when we moved in, and probably will never update them until we move and the closing states that they MUST be changed. Otherwise, they are staying as is.



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Old 04-29-2010, 08:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Ok, in another thread, here, I asked about installing an alarm on a GFCI line in a basement to save losing a freezer full of food.

Assuming that since 2008 the NEC disallows the installation of basement non-GFCI lines even for dedicated things, does this apply to *extending* an existing non-GFCI line from pre-2008?

I have one on the basement ceiling from when the house was built for the water softener, and it is not GFCI. Rather than run an extension cord along the ceiling from across the basement, can I extend that existing line to another ceiling non-GFCI outlet above my freezer?
Scuba Dave said it all! If it's new work it has to be up to code! What puzzles me, however. why you seem to be going out of your way to find a loophole and get away with something that is not legal --and not safe-- when you can so easily comply with the law and have peace of mind at the same time! How 'bout converting the existing receptacle to a GFCI. And extending from there?!!
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:25 PM   #34
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Actually you can. If you install a burglar alarm with on of the inputs set to close if you loose power to the freezer. The burglar alarm power would not have to be on a GFCI circuit according to NEC 210.8(A)(5) plus its exception.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:42 PM   #35
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So he needs to install a fire or burglar alarm
Without the alarm its illegal

2 threads on this issue merged



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Old 04-29-2010, 10:05 PM   #36
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Kits start at less than $15 and he could install a switch on a basement window making it a burglar alarm and have an open loop for the GFCI outlet monitoring. The outlet for the power supply would not be required to be GFCI protected.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:16 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
If its in an unfinished area it has to be GFCI protected
Anything you run/extend that is new has to be meet new codes

Ok, asked and answered. I wasn't sure if *extending* an existing allowed line was forbidden, but this sums it up, thanks!
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
Scuba Dave said it all! If it's new work it has to be up to code! What puzzles me, however. why you seem to be going out of your way to find a loophole and get away with something that is not legal --and not safe-- when you can so easily comply with the law and have peace of mind at the same time! How 'bout converting the existing receptacle to a GFCI. And extending from there?!!
Because I don't want GFCI for my freezer. I think they are far too sensitive. For example, the 15 amp GFCI upstairs throws open once in a while just by me turning on my beard trimmer.

Besides, if it is an outlet that is used only for the freezer, how unsafe is it really? It's fully 3 pin grounded anyway. True, an internal short to the chassis could find its way through me to the basement floor, but wouldn't that require a failure of the 3rd pin grounding?

Last edited by tgm1024; 04-30-2010 at 07:39 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
Scuba Dave said it all! If it's new work it has to be up to code!
He has now clarified it for me. Originally though it was unclear to me if extending an existing (allowed) line was disallowed as well. It was clear to me that installing a new non-GFCI line (or removing the GFCI outlet from a GFCI line) was not allowed.

He has now cleared it up for me: new work is new work, no matter what it is.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Because I don't want GFCI for my freezer. I think they are far too sensitive. For example, the 15 amp GFCI upstairs throws open once in a while just by me turning on my beard trimmer.

Besides, if it is an outlet that is used only for the freezer, how unsafe is it really? It's fully 3 pin grounded anyway. True, an internal short to the chassis could find its way through me to the basement floor, but wouldn't that require a failure of the 3rd pin grounding?
That ONE time a person goes to get something from the freezer and all other conditions (for becoming a conduit to ground) are in place, could be fatal!!
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:47 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
GFCI upstairs throws open once in a while just by me turning on my beard trimmer.

The obvious solution to this problem is to shave your beard.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:03 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
The obvious solution to this problem is to shave your beard.
That is the joking part. But on a serious level. You must look at the conditions that exist when you use your beard trimmer. (Or any other appliance from that outlet.) Could it be that your hands are wet. Or, there is moisture in the room like in a non-sufficiently ventilated bathroom after a shower. Did you try using the trimmer in another location?!
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:00 PM   #43
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two things that perhaps are worth pointing out.
wether the circuit is gfci protected or not if the basement floods it's still going to trip out
Secondly....in my experience a freezer should hold food without power for at least 6hours or so minimum especially when it's not being opened constantly....so why the need for something that will wake you up out of a dead sleep?
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:06 PM   #44
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I think I'd wire a small indicator light somewhere where I would see it on a daily basis
If the lights out, the circuit is out
Or wire up an outlet (where you will see it) & plug in an LED nightlite that is always on - bathroom maybe ?

I may actually do this with the circuit for our freezer



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Old 05-02-2010, 08:52 PM   #45
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How 'bout the oil burner in the basement?
My place is not too old but I'm pretty sure it's not on a GFCI.
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