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Old 04-25-2010, 10:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
No they did away with that in 2008, has to be GFCI now
Interesting. House built in 1997, as an aside the water softener plug might or not be on a GFCI circuit then. Can't reach it anyway, but just thinking aloud.

This is what I had found previously, but it is 30 amp. http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=10958 . How is that meant to be installed? It's a 20 amp line currently.


I've worked with relays, etc., before, but in low voltage DC land. I'm not that comfortable crocking together something on my own to run on house current.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:27 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Sorry to see that a freezer of food is more important than someones life.
(?) What was this in response to? Not my statement I hope...I'm not advocating getting rid of the GFCI. Never implied it. When I was saying I'm not an advocate of leaving it be, I mean leaving the freezer on the GFCI outlet without an alarm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
are you sure? I'm thinking dedicated receptacles for appliances do not have to be GFCI.

same with AFCI I think


and as he turns to grab his 08 NEC, he realizes he has no idea where it is so he can check for himself
LOL....if you have kids, blame it on them. I have a 3 and 5 y.o. They do have interesting relocation habits.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:18 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
LOL....if you have kids, blame it on them. I have a 3 and 5 y.o. They do have interesting relocation habits.
if only

I have a couple of big dogs that eat things. Came home the other day and they had actually eaten their way through the door and were outside.

and I do know they eat books. Last one was a 2" thick phone book so an NEC would be just a snack.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:25 AM   #19
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tgm, I can't find any literature for the connections for that critter but I would suggest it is simply wired in series with the circuit to the recep for the freezer. It looks like it is designed to mount in a knock out of a junction box.

most likely an in and an out on the hot and neutral plus maybe a ground wire

that thing being rated 30 amps would be fine. Better rated for more than less.

if you can find some literature on it, it would help.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
are you sure? I'm thinking dedicated receptacles for appliances do not have to be GFCI.

same with AFCI I think

and as he turns to grab his 08 NEC, he realizes he has no idea where it is so he can check for himself
Yeah I'm sure
They even did away with the exemption for garage door openers- on the ceiling
I guess too many people were running extension cords down from the ceiling
And once people moved the dedicated outlet for a freezer/fridge etc was now open & could be used for anything
Only thing that might still exist is the outlet for the snow melting wire near the gutters



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Old 04-26-2010, 07:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by nap View Post
that thing being rated 30 amps would be fine. Better rated for more than less.
Hmmm....I suppose my question is this: Can I just pull the GFCI outlet, put this thing in series with a regular outlet and call it a day? If this GFCI+alarm thing is 30 amp rated, doesn't that mean that something would have to draw 30 amps for it to trip? Wouldn't that then potentially allow too much current for the line?

I'm clearly not understanding something here. :-/
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:58 AM   #22
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The 30 amp rating should mean it is good for up to 30 amp loads.

The breaker in the panel should trip on overload.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
are you sure? I'm thinking dedicated receptacles for appliances do not have to be GFCI.

same with AFCI I think


and as he turns to grab his 08 NEC, he realizes he has no idea where it is so he can check for himself
Look at 210.8. The exceptions (1) and (2) have been removed for appliances in dedicated spaces and not readily accessible receptacles.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:32 AM   #24
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You have water that caused it to trip? I would fix the water problem before even considering a change to electrical.

Worse case scenario a high enough dedicated non GFCI might be ok... but I'm not sure on this.

You could also plug something into the same plug, like a low wattage light that is on all the time or something. Maybe even the internet router.

Last edited by Red Squirrel; 04-27-2010 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:34 AM   #25
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How about a $25 emergency light unit? Put a buzzer in place of the lighting heads.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:09 PM   #26
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How about a $25 emergency light unit? Put a buzzer in place of the lighting heads.
I have one of those. It runs on a battery that exhausts within 6 hours, which is bad. Plus, in the basement the sound is horribly hard to hear up a floor, let alone up two floors.

Red Squirrel: I have a night-light on there already. No way to see it unless I have an electrician drag an extension to it upstairs. Even then it's pointless if I'm asleep.

I'm wondering: Is it within code to hack the plug end off and have the unit wired directly into the circuit breaker (by electrician)?

I'm starting to like these options less and less.

BY THE WAY, one of the GFCI things I saw said something like "automatic reset". Huh? Wouldn't that be dangerous?
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:20 PM   #27
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So is this a real issue where it trips constantly? If it's the water leaking over the cord as you said earlier I would still fix that problem before anything else. There should not be water in a basement like that even during big rain storms.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
You could also plug something into the same plug,........... the internet router.
If you use the internet nearly every day this would be the answer. But still why is it tripping? I'd want to find out.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:57 AM   #29
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So is this a real issue where it trips constantly? If it's the water leaking over the cord as you said earlier I would still fix that problem before anything else. There should not be water in a basement like that even during big rain storms.
The problem with the rain is being addressed on multiple fronts already:

1. artificially high water table next to the house due to a town swale not being dredged out enough to maintain the grade to pull the water away (another topic) to the swamp further away.

2. The floor cracking due to the water wearing away (possible cause) the rock and silt under the basement floor.

3. Water pushing up through the cracks in the basement floor which are below that artificial high water table.

This water is tripping the plugs I left around down there for fans etc. It looks dry and then wet at night and >poof< $500 worth of food goes out with the trash.

WHEN THE WATER PROBLEM IS SOLVED
this may likely not happen much. However, like I pointed out upthread, I've seen GFCI's throw just by turning off and on a motor, or other "phantom" things that just make this too big a risk to be left to me crossing my fingers.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:06 PM   #30
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How "illegal" is it to extend non-GFCI outlet in basement?


Ok, in another thread, here, I asked about installing an alarm on a GFCI line in a basement to save losing a freezer full of food.

Assuming that since 2008 the NEC disallows the installation of basement non-GFCI lines even for dedicated things, does this apply to *extending* an existing non-GFCI line from pre-2008?

I have one on the basement ceiling from when the house was built for the water softener, and it is not GFCI. Rather than run an extension cord along the ceiling from across the basement, can I extend that existing line to another ceiling non-GFCI outlet above my freezer?
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