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Old 09-02-2009, 10:46 AM   #1
 
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Additional GFCI for a spa?


I am relocating my above ground spa to a different location in my back yard. It is currently about 30 feet from the main service panel, with a dedicated subpanel with a 60 amp GFCI. I will be relocating the spa about 60 feet from its current location and have pulled wire from the original location to the new one.
It has been suggested to me that I install another 60 amp GFCI near the spa, in case I need to shut it off in an "emergency". Is the second GFCI necessary? A good idea? A bad idea?

I appreciate your sound advice

Last edited by metzkuwa; 09-03-2009 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:52 AM   #2
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If you can see the first one from the tub, no need for a second one.
I would remove the first one, make a juction and move it closer to the tub.
You will need a receptacle witnin 5' of the inside wall!
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Old 09-02-2009, 02:07 PM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
If you can see the first one from the tub, no need for a second one.
I would remove the first one, make a juction and move it closer to the tub.
You will need a receptacle witnin 5' of the inside wall!
Thanks, jbfan! The new location is definitely not in line of site, so I will install the GFCI at a convenient location near the tub. Again, many thanks!
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:40 PM   #4
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Is this a hot tub? I'm assuming it is...

I don't have my codebook at the house but I'm thinking that only a hydromassage bathtub (like in a bathroom) can use a cord and plug to a GFCI receptacle as its only means of safety disconnect. Hot tubs require a means of disconnect at least 5' away from the wall of the tub and within sight of the unit...This would be a breaker typically, not a cord and plug/GFCI.
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Is this a hot tub? I'm assuming it is...

I don't have my codebook at the house but I'm thinking that only a hydromassage bathtub (like in a bathroom) can use a cord and plug to a GFCI receptacle as its only means of safety disconnect. Hot tubs require a means of disconnect at least 5' away from the wall of the tub and within sight of the unit...This would be a breaker typically, not a cord and plug/GFCI.
Thats why you should always carry your code book in your back pocket....


This tub is on a 60 amp gfci breaker.

They would have to be talking about the convenience receptacle that is required to be not closer than 5 feet to the tub wall and not further than 10 feet...680.43(A)

Yes a hot tub can be cord and plug to a gfci receptacle 680.43(A)(3)


I have a big pocket.....
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:20 PM   #6
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Man that's embarassing! I didn't read close enough apparently...GFCI 60A breaker. Missed that somehow. Maybe I should get more sleep!
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Man that's embarassing! I didn't read close enough apparently...GFCI 60A breaker. Missed that somehow. Maybe I should get more sleep!
Don't sweat it I've made the same oversites more times than I want to remember....
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:07 AM   #8
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....They would have to be talking about the convenience receptacle that is required to be not closer than 5 feet to the tub wall and not further than 10 feet...680.43(A)....
Ummm .... the OP stated that the hot tub was located outside.

If that is the case, then the convenience outlet must be not closer than 10 feet from the tub, and not further than 20 feet away ...

The Code section you quoted pertains to indoor installations.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:48 AM   #9
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Well there ya go...( I think you call it "open mouth and insert foot") you can have the code book with ya but ya gotta be able to read it..... thanks for the correction
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:03 AM   #10
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Stubbie, I have some pretty good methods for foot-into-mouth insertion if you need them. I also have some great recipes for eating crow that I'd happily share.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metzkuwa View Post
I am relocating my above ground spa to a different location in my back yard. It is currently about 30 feet from the main service panel, with a dedicated subpanel with a 60 amp GFCI. I will be relocating the spa about 60 feet from its current location and have pulled wire from the original location to the new one.
It has been suggested to me that in install another 60 amp GFCI near the spa, in case I need to shut it off in an "emergency". Is the second GFCI necessary? A good idea? A bad idea?

I appreciate your sound advice
You are keeping it off the ground right? If you are putting it on pavers, concrete or directly on the ground you should let someone know ASAP.

If you don't mind spending around $100.00, this is a great way to go. GFCI Breaker/Contactor, E-Stop, Required receptacle and weatherproof box. Also easy install of remote E-Stop. Meets all requirements for tub install. There are several types like this one. With different options. See the one I found below.

Last edited by J. V.; 10-09-2009 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:47 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
You are keeping it off the ground right? If you are putting it on pavers, concrete or directly on the ground you should let someone know ASAP.

If you don't mind spending around $100.00, this is a great way to go. GFCI Breaker/Contactor, E-Stop, Required receptacle and weatherproof box. Also easy install of remote E-Stop. Meets all requirements for tub install. There are several types like this one. With different options. See the one I found below.
I did buy a 60amp GFCI breaker and box similar to what you show. The hot tub, as before, will be located on concrete.
In it's prior location, the electrician did not carry the neutral wire to the hot tub; the neutral was connected only at the GFCI breaker and not at the hot tub. The red, black and ground wires ran underground from the GFCI breaker to a junction box near the hot tub, then from there to the hot tub itself. When I pulled wires, I pulled them from that junction box (only the red, black and ground wires were available), so I don't have a neutral at the new GFCI breaker. Am I in trouble??!!
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:07 PM   #13
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First. When installing a tub on paver's, gravel, concrete or directly on the ground, an equipotential grid must be installed. This is a copper conductor ran underground around the tub. It's purpose is to reduce the chance of shock or electrocution from stray currents. Did the tub have a grid surrounding it before, in it's other location? This is very important. You do not want to see anyone hurt or killed.
Before you do anything further, please contact a qualified electrician and get a quote on installing this tub safely. At least get some feedback on the equipotential bonding grid.
This requirement is for pools and spas too.

You need a neutral for the convenience receptacle.
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:57 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
First. When installing a tub on paver's, gravel, concrete or directly on the ground, an equipotential grid must be installed. This is a copper conductor ran underground around the tub. It's purpose is to reduce the chance of shock or electrocution from stray currents. Did the tub have a grid surrounding it before, in it's other location? This is very important. You do not want to see anyone hurt or killed.
Before you do anything further, please contact a qualified electrician and get a quote on installing this tub safely. At least get some feedback on the equipotential bonding grid.
This requirement is for pools and spas too.

You need a neutral for the convenience receptacle.
The hot tub was installed originally by a certified spa installer, who merely placed it on the existing patio slab. It did not have an equipotential grid. I am moving it to the concrete pool deck which surrounds our swimming pool.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:46 PM   #15
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Unfortunately the fact that the original installer was not aware or did not stick to the code required does not relieve you of the responsibility of meeting the code requirements



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