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Old 06-22-2009, 10:16 PM   #1
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220 vt circuit breaker


I will try to explain this the best i can,
i need a 110vt 30 amp breaker for an RV receptical... but i didnt have one... can i use on a permanent basis a 220vt 30 amp breaker, by using just 1/2 the breaker, and disconnecting the little bar that ties the toggles together... leaving the other 1/2 un used (no wires connected)
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:58 PM   #2
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A 30 A single pole breaker is inexpensive. Buy one and feel good about it.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by december45 View Post
I will try to explain this the best i can,
i need a 110vt 30 amp breaker for an RV receptical... but i didnt have one... can i use on a permanent basis a 220vt 30 amp breaker, by using just 1/2 the breaker, and disconnecting the little bar that ties the toggles together... leaving the other 1/2 un used (no wires connected)
Yes. You do not even have to remove the tie bar.

Goose is right, but a single pole 30A breaker can be hard to find at home centers and hardware stores.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:19 AM   #4
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Is the breaker's trip curve important for this application? What types of loads are you powering?
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:33 AM   #5
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No, you should not use half the breaker. This would leave an unsafe condition and possible overload as someone may consider this a spare slot and use it for something else. 30 amp single pole breakers are common and can be found in any store or supply house. Do it right.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
No, you should not use half the breaker. This would leave an unsafe condition and possible overload as someone may consider this a spare slot and use it for something else. 30 amp single pole breakers are common and can be found in any store or supply house. Do it right.
I'm not saying "don't use a single-pole breaker". Agreed that's the right way to do it.

But I fail to see how safety is compromised by using half of a double-pole, or even using each pole for a different branch feed.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:33 PM   #7
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this is for an RV recepticle, and the idea of using the other half for another RV recepticle is appealing... if the "tie" is removed, im seeing this as a pretty good idea? having a 2nd RV recepticle could be a good idea,
im not understanding about the "Is the breaker's trip curve important for this application?"

just as a question, if a lic electrician or even a home owner seen the two 30 amp breakers, marked RV recepticle, would it make any difference at all if it was a double pole with the "tie" removed or two singles...? again just a question.

Last edited by december45; 06-23-2009 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:44 PM   #8
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2008 NEC code

Quote:
210.4(B) says that all MWBCs must have both ungnd. conductors on a common-trip
Is there a difference between common trip & a 240v breaker?
Just wondering as that is supplying 2 circuits with a "240v" breaker



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Old 06-23-2009, 02:12 PM   #9
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You need to understand a couple things about breakers. That being 'handled tied' and 'common trip'. Not the same thing. A double pole MCCB that is
common trip has internal mechanisms that will insure trip out of both poles and will generally have tied handles unless a square d QO.
However, many breakers used in double pole applications are two single pole breakers that are handle tied and not labeled common trip. These do not insure trip out of both breakers even though "tied" together with a bar or handle. You run across these handle tied breakers quite often and can still purchase them.
There are obvious precautions that should be taken if you modify these breakers, that being misunderstanding the handle tie...... If you pry off the handle tie of a common trip breaker thinking you now have two independent single poles then you will be mistaken. For example you wire grandpas 120 volt oxygen machine to one pole and the other to another 120 volt load and that other load faults.... it will trip out your grandpas oxygen supply also.
Removing the tied handle of a non-common trip double pole breaker will result in two independent single pole breakers and though no serious consequences result it is possible to be misunderstood as a common trip breaker even without the handle tie if one notices they are screwed together as one unit. Somewhere down the road a DIY may attempt a multiwire with that broken tied breaker thinking it will common trip. Hazards exist whenever you modify tied together breakers common trip or otherwise by those coming behind you that are unkowledgeable and misunderstand what you have done. Best to use a single pole breaker and avoid murphy's law.
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:22 PM   #10
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Edit: Stubbie gave a much better reply than I did.

Last edited by ScottR; 06-23-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:39 PM   #11
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You are permitted to utilize one pole of a double pole breaker for a 120 Volt load. You do not have to remove any handle tie on such a breaker.

This is no different than using a 3-pole disconnect to control a 2-pole load, leaving the remaining pole unused. This is done all the time.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:17 PM   #12
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What KBsparky says is certainly correct. There is no issue with any electrical system problems such as overloads or the like by utilizing a double pole for two single pole 120 volt loads or a single 120 volt load. I would also agree to just leave the handle tie alone when doing this....becomes much less likely to be misunderstood by Mr. Murphy.
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:33 AM   #13
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I done the excat the same way as Kbsparky been doing with multipole breakers like that.

Yeah . It is legit to do that not only in North Americia and I done that too in France the same way.

Merci,Marc
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:20 AM   #14
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I use a 20a 240v breaker to supply power to a timer that controls (2) 120v circuits. I like it know all power in the timer is off when I flip the breaker off. I have 3 timers (Christmas display) that are fed this way - the breakers were leftover from electric heat in an old sunroom



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