20A Circuit Breaker, 30A Dryer, Is It OK? - Electrical - Page 3 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:26 AM   #31
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i found the 4-wire flush-mount receptacle at another HD, and i have already replaced the 3-wire one. i also replace the power cord to 4-wire, and removed the bonding strap between neutral and ground in the dryer.

my washer does require 240v as well. it is an European model (Asko). but apparently it can be plugged into my Asko dryer, which provides a 3-wire receptacle, specifically for Asko washer, in the back of the dryer where dryer power cord is installed.

i am a little worried that the washer and dryer are now on the same 30A circuit. but this is kosher according to the manufacture specification. i turned both on and they hummed along happily...
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:03 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
Just to clarify the reasoning on the four wire system. Your dryer probably requires 240 volts for the drying circuit, and 120 volts for the controls. The drying circuit runs off the two hot wires, typically red and black, which are 240 volts with respect to each other.

The 120 volt circuit runs off one of the hot wires, and a neutral, which should be white. It also needs an independent equipment ground, which is the green wire. Hence four wires, two hots (red and black), a neutral (white), and an independent equipment ground (green).

Older dryers only used 3 wire cords, and they are grandfathered in provided you did not run new wiring (you reused old wiring). In the three wire setup, the grounding strap from the dryer is attached to the neutral rather than being attached to an independent equipment ground (the green wire).
Just a little more clarification.
NEVER has a grounded conductor (EGC) been allowed to carry any current. Meaning a 3 wire circuit has always been a violation if the dryer or any other appliance is rated 120/230. I have never met a dryer that was not rated 120/230.
NEVER would a 10/2 NM cable been compliant. Even 30 years ago. What was allowed was the use of SE cable. I still to this day wonder how this practice was ever allowed. 3 wire NM or SE. It is clearly wrong.
But in no case, should a grounded conductor (EGC) carry current unless it is fault current.
The only point the neutral and grounded conductors may be connected together is at the MAIN service panel. That is why the jumper on the dryer must be removed or disconnected.
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Just a little more clarification.
NEVER has a grounded conductor (EGC) been allowed to carry any current. .
A grounded conductor is not the same as an Equipment Grounding Conductor.

A Grounded Conductor by deffinition from the NEC is- A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded.

The Equiptment Grounding Conductor by deffinition from the NEC is- The conductive path installed to connect normally non-current-carrying metal parts of equipment together and to the system grounded conductor or to the grounding electrode conductor or both.

Up until 1996 the NEC allowed the Frames of DRyers and Ranges to be connected to the grounded circuit conductor if certain conditions were met. One of which was an SE cable originating at the service equipment.

After the 1996 code cycle you had to run 4 wire to a range and dryer the frames were no longer allowed to be connected to the grounded conductor. You had to run an equipment grounding conductor with the two hots for your 240 volts and a grounded conductor for your 120 volts, and a equipment grounding conductor for your frame.

The grounded conductor (neutral) almost always carries current.
Except in multi-wire circuits.
Neutral is not really a proper term for the conductor.

Last edited by codeone; 01-03-2010 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 02:22 PM   #34
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Neutral is not really a proper term for the conductor.
But it IS a widely and generally accepted term.
The same could be said for the term "sub-panel".
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Old 01-03-2010, 02:29 PM   #35
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I don't think the term neutral was ever intended to refer to the conductor as carrying zero current, as was correctly pointed out the neutral in a 120 volt circuit is a current carrying conductor, identically to the "hot". I think the term neutral referred to the fact that the "neutral" is at the same voltage potential as ground, which is typically taken to be zero, hence the term neutral.
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Old 01-03-2010, 02:56 PM   #36
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But it IS a widely and generally accepted term.
I understand Speedy Petey I use the term neutral all the time myself.
Was just trying to clarify the comment in the post before mine that the grounded conductor is not supposed to carry current.

People also think that current is trying to find ground. They dont understand that its trying to go back to its source. Therefore a complete circle. the only reason it goes to ground is that we have a grounded system.
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Old 01-03-2010, 03:11 PM   #37
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People also think that current is trying to find ground. They dont understand that its trying to go back to its source. Therefore a complete circle. the only reason it goes to ground is that we have a grounded system.
It's kind of scary how many life long sparkys still don't get that.
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