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Old 04-24-2019, 11:10 AM   #16
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


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Where I live...
It's at this sort of point that knowing where someone lives enters the equation.


Top left - user CP (control panel)
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:25 AM   #17
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


Ya, but typically all cities use the uniform electrical code, which is actually the fire prevention code as a base, and add on additional requirements.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:38 AM   #18
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Where I live...
It's at this sort of point that knowing where someone lives enters the equation.
Top left - user CP (control panel)
The house is in Delaware
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:02 AM   #19
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


That original cable looks like the first-generation of Sheathed Cable.
In the 1930s & 40's they used a rubberized fabric coated sheath, much like knob and tube wiring, but the hot and neutral wire were run together in this one sheathing. it contained no ground wire.

By the mid to late 50's, NM cable was used with a ground wire. Early renditions had a partial cloth outside sheath, was gray in color and was marked NM. By the mid 60's, thermoplastic was used on the outside sheath and contained a ground.

All of the old cloth and rubber, ungrounded cables, should be replaced throughout the house.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:29 AM   #20
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


I agree about replacing any old cloth sheathed NM type cable. For some reason the previous owner of my 1967 built home installed a branch circuit using salvaged NM cloth sheathed type cable. It had 3 wires, one being the ground. It was fine when installed, but after about 25 years, when I remodeled that room, I removed it, and installed equivalent NM Romex cable. I notice where he had installed the wire cable above a metal heating duct. Whatever protection he had put between the cable and the metal was gone and the cable sheathing had worn away by rubbing on the duct, and only the insulation on the individual wires was left protecting against a short. When reinstalled, I made sure the cable would not touch that metal duct. I ran the cable under, not over the duct and staples at appropriate intervals.

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Old 04-25-2019, 11:40 AM   #21
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


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I agree about replacing any old cloth sheathed NM type cable. For some reason the previous owner of my 1967 built home installed a branch circuit using salvaged NM cloth sheathed type cable. It had 3 wires, one being the ground. It was fine when installed, but after about 25 years, when I remodeled that room, I removed it, and installed equivalent NM Romex cable. I notice where he had installed the wire cable above a metal heating duct. Whatever protection he had put between the cable and the metal was gone and the cable sheathing had worn away by rubbing on the duct, and only the insulation on the individual wires was left protecting against a short. When reinstalled, I made sure the cable would not touch that metal duct. I ran the cable under, not over the duct and staples at appropriate intervals.

That was no fault of the wire.
Ducts vibrate if they are close to the furnace.


I've never seen any problems with the cloth covered NM cables in my 1967 bungalow. Each conductor is nicely insulated. Except ground of course.


Unless you guys are referring to something different than 1967 era stuff.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:01 PM   #22
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


It's never the fault of the wires. Even bare wires on insulators are fine, if installed correctly, but nothing is static, things change and stuff happens. That's why the fire protection code gets updated periodically, usually based on experience.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:15 PM   #23
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


Arc fault circuit interrupter breakers are wider than standard ones and probably will not fit inside the existing panel. They can also trip when there is not actually a problem but only a voltage spike. Electrical problems are said to be responsible for a third of all house fires so not something to ignore.

If it was my house I would pay someone to open up every receptacle and light switch and check the wiring which would include verifying that there is no voltage on the ground for the panel. Looking at the ceiling wiring it is apparent that the person who worked on it did not know what they were doing and did not care to learn how to do it properly or pay someone who would.

This is something that would have been caught by a professional licensed home inspector and then the buyer can negotiate with the seller and get a set aside amount to cover the repairs and have the amount included in the escrow paperwork so the money is set aside for the needed repairs.
I have not bothered to use a realtor as none I have encountered actually provide a service for the buyer. A good realtor would have required the home inspection and a detailed report.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:19 PM   #24
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


The code allows you to install AFCI and GFCI in the lead receptacle, to protect that branch circuit. True it's not as good as installing at the box, because the lead in wires to that first box is not protected, but the code requirement recognizes that forcing a complete distribution panel replacement to accommodate AFCI and GFCI breakers is not conducive to getting people to upgrade. By the way, a little background research shows that overload breakers prevent about 98% of all fires caused by electrical problems. The Arc fault protection is just to try to get closer to 99.9%. And GFCI is purely for protecting people from getting electrocuted by faulty appliances, or other "operator error" electrocutions.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:22 PM   #25
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Re: 1940's house and was told the electrical was updated


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That was no fault of the wire.
Ducts vibrate if they are close to the furnace.


I've never seen any problems with the cloth covered NM cables in my 1967 bungalow. Each conductor is nicely insulated. Except ground of course.


Unless you guys are referring to something different than 1967 era stuff.
Yes, something completely different. The Black rubber and cloth from the 30's & 40's is thick and wide with no ground. Age causes the rubber ro deteriorate.
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