12-2 Wire That Is Actualy 14-2 - Electrical - Page 6 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:46 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
If the wire says 12 on it, I would trust it. If you are worried, you could drop the breaker down to 15 Amps.
#12 is 0.081" [5/64ths] dia, 14 is 0.064" [1/16th].
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:15 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
#12 is 0.081" [5/64ths] dia, 14 is 0.064" [1/16th].
Ill measure it when I get home. If its marked 12 but is thinner than .081" should I trash it?

Shane
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by JakAHearts View Post
Ill measure it when I get home. If its marked 12 but is thinner than .081" should I trash it?

Shane
Determine what size it is closest to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:32 PM   #79
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Are you looking at the diameter of the conductor or the insulation? Insulations have changed material and thicknesses. Conductor size is still the same.
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Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by JakAHearts View Post
Ill measure it when I get home. If its marked 12 but is thinner than .081" should I trash it?

Shane
How about returning it to the store? Show them they are selling improperly labelled wire. However, make sure you've got the right data to backup your claim (callapers and wire size chart?)

Even if you've already cut the wire... if its the wrong size, then it should be returned.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:44 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Are you looking at the diameter of the conductor or the insulation? Insulations have changed material and thicknesses. Conductor size is still the same.
No, the insulation AND the conductor are of a thinner guage. I can easily bend it with just my fingers where as the "old" 12 guage is quite stiff and requires pliers to bend.

Shane
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:13 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by JakAHearts View Post
No, the insulation AND the conductor are of a thinner guage. I can easily bend it with just my fingers where as the "old" 12 guage is quite stiff and requires pliers to bend.

Shane
Is what you think is 12 guage really 10 gauage? I've run 12 guage before, back when all guages were white. I never had problems bending 14 or 12. But when I used some 10 guage as oversized wire to feed power tools, that stuff was a bear to get bent into the j-boxes.
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:29 PM   #83
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Not that I know of... Both of them are clearly marked along the wire
"12-2" I purchased the same numbers because all I am doing is running a seperate grounded cable to my upstairs bathroom w/ a GFI.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:48 AM   #84
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Issue solved. A certain idiot (me) accidentally, bought a length of 14 and a length of 12. Of course, I used the 14 when I wanted the 12. Now, my question is, how much load can I put on here? Ive got it hooked to a 15a breaker and it feeds a junction box that will go to 2 outlets in a bathroom, 6 overhead recessed lights in the same bathroom and 1 outlet in an adjacent room. If I can, Id also like to run a exhaust fan with this but its not necessary, I can run a seperate line for this easily.

Thanks everyone for not telling me Im an idiot.

Shane
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:59 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakAHearts View Post
Issue solved. A certain idiot (me) accidentally, bought a length of 14 and a length of 12. Of course, I used the 14 when I wanted the 12. Now, my question is, how much load can I put on here? Ive got it hooked to a 15a breaker and it feeds a junction box that will go to 2 outlets in a bathroom, 6 overhead recessed lights in the same bathroom and 1 outlet in an adjacent room. If I can, Id also like to run a exhaust fan with this but its not necessary, I can run a seperate line for this easily.

Thanks everyone for not telling me Im an idiot.

Shane
A couple issues here. 14 gauge wire has to be fed with no larger than a 15-amp breaker, so you ok there, but there are specific rules on bathroom outlets and the circuits that provide power to them.

A circuit can power:
One bathroom, outlets & lighting/fan
OR
Multiple bathrooms, outlets only

-Bathroom outlets have to be 20 amps.
-Bathroom outoets must be GFCI-protected
-Circuits that feed bathroom outlets cannot feed outlets in any non-bathrooms

Just to give you an example of a legal setup (I sure hope so anyway!):

I am remodeling my bathroom currently. I'm using two separate circuits, one to the GFCI outlet (20a breaker, 12g wire) and one for the lighting fan (15a breaker, 14g wire). I will also be extending the lighting circuit to the upstairs bathroom, and running another new 20a circuit for the upstairs bathroom outlet.
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Last edited by secutanudu; 04-21-2010 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:16 AM   #86
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#14 = 15 amp max
#12 = 20 amp max

2008 NEC code requires bathroon receptacle outlets to be supplied by a 20 amp circuit (210.11(C)(3)) and states that this circuit can NOT supply outlets in other rooms.

The code does allow a single 20 amp circuit to supply receptacle outlets for multiple bathrooms (according to my building inspector) OR a single 20 amp circuit can supply power for receptacles, lights, fans, etc. for a single bathroom.

So if you want to be compliant with the latest NEC codes, you need to either...
1. replace the #14 with the #12 AND remove that outlet in the other room for the circuit, or
2. use the existing #14 to supply power to lights, fan, and the outlet in the other room AND run a second circuit with #12 to only feed receptical outlets in the bathroom.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:20 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
A couple issues here. 14 gauge wire has to be fed with no larger than a 15-amp breaker, so you ok there, but there are specific rules on bathroom outlets and the circuits that provide power to them.

A circuit can power:
One bathroom, outlets & lighting/fan
OR
Multiple bathrooms, outlets only

-Bathroom outlets have to be 20 amps.
-Bathroom outoets must be GFCI-protected
-Circuits that feed bathroom outlets cannot feed outlets in any non-bathrooms

Just to give you an example of a legal setup (I sure hope so anyway!):

I am remodeling my bathroom currently. I'm using two separate circuits, one to the GFCI outlet (20a breaker, 12g wire) and one for the lighting fan (15a breaker, 14g wire). I will also be extending the lighting circuit to the upstairs bathroom, and running another new 20a circuit for the upstairs bathroom outlet.
Ok, that should be easy enough. Can I run an independent line for just the bathroom then to a junction box and from the box go through the ceiling to recessed lights and through the floor to the outlets? Also, since I just read in the code sticky that I cant put 20a outlets on 15a circuit will I have to use a 12-2 line for the proprietary bathroom line? Hope that wasnt too confusing of a description. And since I cant say thanks enough, THANKS AGAIN!

Shane
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:26 AM   #88
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Ok, so you can see secutanudu and I were working on replies at the same time...

And I can attest to the fact that you want your bathroom recepticals to be on a 20 amp circuit.

Modern hair dryers are listed at as much at 1850 watts (and maybe even 1900 watts). I'm not sure how they are able to do this and have only a plug compatable with a 15 amp circuit since 1850 watts at 120 volts is OVER 15 amps.

Our older home with only a 15 amp circuit can quickly trip the breaker if all the lights in the bathroom are on and the hair dryer is run at full power.

It's bad enough that as a part of a building permit to finish in a basement, I included adding a 20 amp circuit to supply a single "hair dryer" outlet in my existing bathroom.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:33 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakAHearts View Post
Ok, that should be easy enough. Can I run an independent line for just the bathroom then to a junction box and from the box go through the ceiling to recessed lights and through the floor to the outlets? Also, since I just read in the code sticky that I cant put 20a outlets on 15a circuit will I have to use a 12-2 line for the proprietary bathroom line? Hope that wasnt too confusing of a description. And since I cant say thanks enough, THANKS AGAIN!

Shane
Yes, I'm a bit confused by this (...run an independent line for just the bathroom then to a junction box...).

Depending upon where you are going with this, something to keep in mind is that a circuit protected by a 20 amp breaker can not have any wire in the circuit less than #12 (excluding the wire inside luminaries and other things that plug into the circuit).

Some people think that since it's impossible for their light fixtures to pull more than 15 amps that they can run #12 from a 20 amp breaker to a receptical, then run #14 from the receptical to the lights. But that's not how it works. If the circuit is going to be protected by a 20 amp breaker, then all the wire you run for the circuit MUST be #12 (or greater).
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:35 AM   #90
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Thanks HooKoo. We were typing at the same time. You put that a lot easier than I was trying to convey. So one 12-2 circuit for all three outlets in the bathroom and keep the 14 for the lights and fan.

Can one spot house both the GFI and switch for the lighting even though they are wired seperately?

Also, am I better off starting a new thread and letting this old thing die or...?

Shane
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