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Old 08-02-2020, 05:52 PM   #31
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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Old 08-02-2020, 06:11 PM   #32
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


Here’s a picture showing overhead cuts that I have made and showing the proximity of the cuts near the supply duct. I just hope the supply duct isn’t a red herring and this is another problem. So I still haven’t found the ‘source’ everything I opened up today had damp plywood underneath but I didn’t find any “active” flows.
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:28 PM   #33
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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Here’s a picture showing overhead cuts that I have made and showing the proximity of the cuts near the supply duct. I just hope the supply duct isn’t a red herring and this is another problem. So I still haven’t found the ‘source’ everything I opened up today had damp plywood underneath but I didn’t find any “active” flows.
So before you did the new roof, did you have leaks?
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:34 PM   #34
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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So before you did the new roof, did you have leaks?
Yes, I had some leaks towards the rear of the house, but I was able to locate the source of the leak, which was a bad pitch job by the previous owner, and so I ripped out 1/3 of the roof, added new plywood, and then added the rubber roof over the rest of the house. so in some areas the "new" roof I added will be the 4th layer. I believe that the previous owner added 1 new roof, and there appears to be 2 layers under that one.

That said, I think the roof was leaking in this area even after the previous owners did the roof because there was a drip tray screwed to the joists, with a drain tube going the my drain pipes (shared with my whole house humidifier). So the previous contractor was a tricky guy. there would be no way anyone would know unless they tore off the ceiling, or tore the roof apart. or after another 10 years the roof might just collapse.
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:36 PM   #35
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


Here is a video of the most recent endoscope. I traversed a similar path as yesterday, and yesterday I saw multiple streams of water and it was much "wetter". today I can't find ANY streams... maybe my eyes are playing tricks, but you guys can compare the two. here is the new one:

https://flic.kr/p/2jsoVNB
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:03 PM   #36
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


really hard to tell but I go for my eye exam on Friday, so I am not the best judge.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:10 AM   #37
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


Misc. comments to some of the recent posts:

I would find it difficult to believe that there has been water trapped in between wood layers for a long time (like years) as it would have been drawn in every which direction and eventually dried out if not recently resupplied.

I think you may have mentioned before that there is an air gap above the insulation and below the roof? Could it be big enough to be the source of the condensation (assuming that is what is happening), meaning could it be supplying a fresh source of hot humid air to hit the ductwork and cause enough condensation before the ductwork makes it through ceiling and into the home?

Referring to the last picture you posted, there does not appear to be any water damage in the wood right next the supply duct, at least not to the extent that you have cut into the roof. If you think condensation is occurring next to this duct and running over the top of the plastic, you might want to cut out the plank right beside the duct to examine more closely. The downside of all this ceiling/roof surgery, room dehumidification, etc is that the environment is changing but I would still continue to look deeper. As water will destroy things sooner rather than later.

How does the ceiling look on the other side behind the duct? Is that another part of your home, which has no leak? Or is that your neighbor? Maybe your neighbor's ceiling is also a little wet? Or maybe your neighbor is the source of the water?

I would assume that if the skylight was leaking you would also see some wetness during cooler weather. But now that you have the ceiling opened up you should be able to get more immediate feedback once the next heavy rainfall occurs.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:15 AM   #38
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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Here is a video of the most recent endoscope. I traversed a similar path as yesterday, and yesterday I saw multiple streams of water and it was much "wetter". today I can't find ANY streams... maybe my eyes are playing tricks, but you guys can compare the two. here is the new one:

https://flic.kr/p/2jsoVNB
I would agree. Yesterday could make out what looked to be a fresh stream of water. Today that is not seen. I would keep checking a few times, especially at the end of a hot humid day.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:01 AM   #39
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


I agree with your rationale regarding the wood being drawn every which way and drying. I think this problem is compounded by the fact that I believe there was a potential leak as shown in my other post in the roof threads (ttps://www.diychatroom.com/f9/8-year-old-leak-making-unsolved-mysteries-695439/#post6236129)
The crack that I saw in the flashing appeared to have been taking on water as the crack had white powdery substance, which I was told by a roofer that its a sign of water evaporating. Assuming that has been there since I redid my roof (bad flashing job), then it's possible that I have been getting water in that location for the last 2 years. And the location of where that crack was coincides with the same area where there was the heaviest damage.
Note that the area with the heaviest damage also is the lowest point in the interior roof (where my old roof meets the new extension). That could be a reason why it's still wet, because that roof crack was only repaired about 2 weeks ago.

As for the air gap, it's very possible hot humid air is hitting the ductwork and conversely cold air could be hitting the warmer pipes in the winter as well. I have turned off the dehumidifier and ill see if there is anymore leaking today.i'll examine the same path I took with the endoscope yesterday as well. Today should be a very hot and humid day also. one thing to note is yesterday was very humid, but less hot temperature wise than the previous days when it was leaking. Not sure if the humidifty or the temp makes a bigger difference. it was ~90F and 70% humidity yesterdayy, and the previous days were probably 93F and 50% humidity.

I wanted to cut right next to the hvac to see if that was an issue, but the framing was preventing me from doing so. I have some contracts in the house today to reframe my room (original project), so I will see if they can cut into that section for me.
The "other side of the duct is the neighbor. where you see the wall with the wallpaper, that is the divider between my property and the neighbors.It could be possible that the neighbor is leaking into my property but my roof is actually overlapping onto his, so the water shouldn't be coming underneath mine. but when I looked outside, his GUTTER starts right around where my supply duct starts, so its possible that some water is coming from his roof and is masked since I am thinking it's HVAC condesation. that said the gutter is pitched away from my house, and where it starts, it appears to be flashed pretty well.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RustNeverSleeps View Post
Misc. comments to some of the recent posts:

I would find it difficult to believe that there has been water trapped in between wood layers for a long time (like years) as it would have been drawn in every which direction and eventually dried out if not recently resupplied.

I think you may have mentioned before that there is an air gap above the insulation and below the roof? Could it be big enough to be the source of the condensation (assuming that is what is happening), meaning could it be supplying a fresh source of hot humid air to hit the ductwork and cause enough condensation before the ductwork makes it through ceiling and into the home?

Referring to the last picture you posted, there does not appear to be any water damage in the wood right next the supply duct, at least not to the extent that you have cut into the roof. If you think condensation is occurring next to this duct and running over the top of the plastic, you might want to cut out the plank right beside the duct to examine more closely. The downside of all this ceiling/roof surgery, room dehumidification, etc is that the environment is changing but I would still continue to look deeper. As water will destroy things sooner rather than later.

How does the ceiling look on the other side behind the duct? Is that another part of your home, which has no leak? Or is that your neighbor? Maybe your neighbor's ceiling is also a little wet? Or maybe your neighbor is the source of the water?

I would assume that if the skylight was leaking you would also see some wetness during cooler weather. But now that you have the ceiling opened up you should be able to get more immediate feedback once the next heavy rainfall occurs.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:06 AM   #40
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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I would agree. Yesterday could make out what looked to be a fresh stream of water. Today that is not seen. I would keep checking a few times, especially at the end of a hot humid day.
Yes, I will be checking throughout the day. I wish there was an easier way to diagnose this, as I keep changing my mind on what I think the primary cause of the "wetness" to be.

I really hope that it's residual water and now that I have sealed up the crack from a couple of weeks ago that I won't see this happening again.

One of my fears now is after I put the sheetrock back up, and I won't know what is happening under everything, and it won't be until my sheetrock is damp enough that Ill have to re-tear things up. at the same time, it's quite frustrating that up entire 2nd floor is unusable until I resolve this problem.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:36 AM   #41
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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I would agree. Yesterday could make out what looked to be a fresh stream of water. Today that is not seen. I would keep checking a few times, especially at the end of a hot humid day.
Just a different angle. Where you can see the room layout a tad better. Note this was before I started tearing the ceiling apart.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:49 AM   #42
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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Just a different angle. Where you can see the room layout a tad better. Note this was before I started tearing the ceiling apart.
You started out with patching the gaps on the roof, if those were leaks, would this be close to the right path for the water?
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:59 AM   #43
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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You started out with patching the gaps on the roof, if those were leaks, would this be close to the right path for the water?
Yes. See picture for the roof overlayed with the room and the approximate key locations. I highlighted the supply duct location,the damaged area and where my extension starts on the roof.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:19 AM   #44
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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Yes. See picture for the roof overlayed with the room and the approximate key locations. I highlighted the supply duct location,the damaged area and where my extension starts on the roof.
Just grabbing at straws
If that was the leak, we don't know if the water came straight down or some went between layers. If it was sitting between layers, just walking on the top layer could send the water in every direction, where ever it has space to fill so even up hill from there on a low s;ope.
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:11 PM   #45
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Re: Troubleshooting 8 year old leak - possibly HVAC duct related


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Just grabbing at straws
If that was the leak, we don't know if the water came straight down or some went between layers. If it was sitting between layers, just walking on the top layer could send the water in every direction, where ever it has space to fill so even up hill from there on a low s;ope.
Yes that makes sense, and there has certainly been some traffic on the roof as I have the AC maintenance guys come a few times a year to check on the unit and im sure they are not "light" on the roof. That said, here is another video I just took a little while ago. It's blazing up on the rooftop. I bought the sensor that rustneversleeps recommended, and I stuck the sensor between a couple of the roofs, basically on the layer that I see the leaking coming from, and I am seeing a temp of 105F and 85% humidity.

That sounds pretty hot and humid to me. Now, I wonder, what are the chances that by me having the ceiling open like this, basically feeding more air up there, that Im causing some of these leaks to occur.

THe video is now showing the streams. A few difference from yesterday when I couldn't find the streams
1. I turned off the dehumidifier, and the room is probably a little more humid and little cooler (77F, 58% humidity)
2.There has been a lot of movement as the contractors have been banging walls, ceilings, etc. so perhaps they jostled some pooled water and now its coming down to the lowest point. not sure I really buy this one
3. it's hotter outside today, but less humid (88F, 43% humidity)

here's the video:https://flic.kr/p/2jsEDau

Let me know what you think... thanks all.
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