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Old 05-31-2017, 05:12 PM   #16
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


Probably from basement to top, 28-30 feet
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:42 PM   #17
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


If distance from boiler to chimney is less then 10', a 5" liner will be fine. If more then 10', then you need a 6".
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:56 AM   #18
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


Everyone,

Once again thank you for all your very helpful comments that you gave me this past May. As "heating" season is going to start soon here in the Northeast, I will be again relying on my gas boiler again.

Since the last posting here, I had a professional come out here to clean & inspect the boiler, double check the chimney (he stuck a mirror into it and we both saw daylight) and he proclaimed the unit in perfect working condition. The Pro did advise me on two things that I wish to run by you all for further opinion, lf you don't mind.

1) The Pro advised (he has over 30 years of experience) that I should get a "better quality" spill switch than the one that I currently am using. The one I have (and already changed 2 times) is the one that is made specifically for this unit (rated at 210F):

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Weil-McLa...-w-Reset-210-F

He said I should get a better quality one made by Field Controls, something like:

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Con...w-Manual-Reset

or even

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Con...Reset-120-240V

Now, my question is this: Since my Weil-McLain EG-45 SPDN unit is rated at 210F, and I will put a spill switch that is 200F or even 180F rated, is that okay? The Pro did confirm that my existing spill-switch location is in the right spot and that I do not need two of them for my type of a unit.

2) As far as the Vent-Damper (to remind, I installed a brand new one last winter, made by Field Controls). The Pro said that he would just leave it in MANUAL mode. When I asked him about the danger of having "bad gasses" leakage into the house, he stated that the boiler will shut itself off as there are other protection sensors there and that this AUTO function is now included into the Vent-Dampers more for better efficiency of the unit than for safety. Is he right?

I should also add:

a) I do have a 4" clean-air going into the boiler room directly from the street (boiler room being a closed-off section with 2 doors, with two return 20 inches x 8 inches ventilation grille's that have the air escape into the rest of the basement). The actual room measures 6 feet long x 7 feet wide x 8 feet high and only contains the gas hot water heater and the gas boiler.

b) On the advice of the Pro, I tried turning on the heat (via my Thermostat) a number of times during the summer's hot & humid days (it was like 80F in the room, so I had to set the Thermostat manually to 82F). The unit started-up every time without problems and I let it work for 5 mins or so before turning it off. The Pro said that during the very humid days that the heavy air that gets trapped in the chimney could force the Vent-Damp to trigger the spill switch. It never did.

I await your comments. Thank you again in advance for your time and knowledge.
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:00 PM   #19
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


Vent dampers were never for safety/your safety. They were always for efficiency.

Putting a lower temp roll out in, just means it will trip quicker.

It may be that the vent damper is not always opening, and that is when the roll out trips. So setting the vent damper to manual and having it always open may indeed stop the roll out from tripping.
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:23 PM   #20
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


Beenthere: Thanks a lot for the answers.

So if I set the Vent Damper to MANUAL, and the boiler gets past 200F or 210F (depending on the type of spill-switch that I end up using), will the spill-switch still trigger the boiler to shut off due to extreme heat? If yes, will the vent damper close and would need to MANUALLY reset by pressing the button on the spill switch (as I've had to do in the AUTO position) in order for it to restart?

If the above statement is true, then what, how much efficiency do you think I will loose by running the VENT in MANUAL rather than AUTO? I believe that the Pro who visited me was trying to tell me with these "older" systems, its almost unnoticeable.

Thanks again!
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:29 PM   #21
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


The roll out switch only trips if combusted gasses/fumes are coming out the vent hood. So if it trips with the vent damper in manual setting. You HAVE a chimney or negative boiler room pressure problem.

AFUE efficiency loss for a vent damper in the manual setting is anywhere from 10 to 20%. That is not to be confused with steady state efficiency.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:38 AM   #22
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


I wanted to let everyone know that it seems like my problem has been finally solved. I thought it is important to post this solution in case someone else has these same issues and could perhaps find this helpful.

After putting the vent-damper into the MANUAL mode (always open), it did not take more than 2 days for the spill switch to trigger again. So, I decided to order the Fields Controls GSK-4 switch:

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-GSK-4-200-Gas-Spillage-Sensing-Switch-w-Manual-Reset

Upon its installation, I am happy to report that for one week, everything was working perfectly in MANUAL mode and now for the past 3 days, the vent-damper is set back to AUTO mode and still working properly. During these 10 days, we’ve had a variant of rainy, damp, dry and cold weather outside.


So it turns out that I do not have a chimney or negative boiler room pressure problem (as I always thought), and it all was due to the spill switch behaving badly. May I remind you, this was my 3rd spill switch (the official one sold by Weil-McLain) that I was trying out. What is interesting, is that the “official” spill-switch (model # 510-300-013), that is made by Weil-McLain and used by me has to be actually attached to the metal of the vent hood for operation:

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Weil-McLain-510-300-013-Spill-Switch-w-Reset-210-F

But the Field Controls GSK-4 specifically tells you that “The switch should not contact the metal. They should be mounted at least 1 inch below the hood opening”

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/manuals/1261234685280/20730_PROD_FILE.pdf

QUESTION:
---------------

I always thought that the spill switch MUST have physical contact with the draft hood in order to monitor “for temperature reading & monitoring of combusted gasses/fumes that are coming out the vent” but as it seems, I guess the boiler that has the actual sensor to trigger the spill switch? Can someone please clarify this?

In any case, thank you EVERYONE for trying to help me with this issue. I am happy that I got my boiler cleaned and checked out by the pro, and his advice to get the GSK-4 turned out to be right.
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Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler-oldspill.jpg   Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler-newspill.jpg  

Last edited by mystiky2; 11-10-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #23
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


The key word is "SPILL". It is there in case your chimney gets blocked or you have a downdraft or the vent damper does not open.

Fumes/heat "spills" out the draft diverter and hits the sensor. It just needs to be in a stream of flue gases spilling out the diverter or boiler or in some cases furnaces too.

Some times furnace and boiler manufacturers find out a year or two after they release a new model that is has nuisance tripping problems of spill switches. It is impossible to simulate all operating conditions in a test lab or a few trial homes.

Usually there is a TSB technical service bulletin sent to their dealers about the problem and a new switch with a new mount if it is serious enough or a major problem.

I imagine Fields who is a very old school large experienced company came up with this new switch to deal with a certain per centage of nuisance tripping problems and tested it and certified it to be safe. Looks OK to me.

Probably not enough complaints for Weil McLain to do it.

You should have 2 new CO detectors in your house.

One at the top of the stairs as heat/fumes will rise if they get out of the boiler and another by your bedroom in case they get upstairs.
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Last edited by yuri; 11-10-2017 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:45 PM   #24
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


Yuri: Thanks for the detailed explanation here and other things you wrote. The boiler that I am using is at least 15 years old (installed), and the original spill switch that was on there was the EXACT SAME model to which I replaced 2 times (3 years ago, and just this past February, when things started to go really koo-koo). I spoke a number of times to the folks at Weil McLain and they told me that this is the only spill switch I should be using. They had ample time to ask me questions but they never did. Also, what is still driving me crazy is this: Why did the Weil McLain switch work without any problems for at least 4 years in the same machine room, with exactly the same settings around it - nothing was changed! Where I live near New York, it's pretty much the same weather every year.

Anyhow, we do have 2 CO detectors in the house. One INSIDE the actual machine room (on the ceiling of it) where this boiler and water heater are, and correct, one on the ceiling of the 2nd floor -- where all 3 bedrooms are.

Cheers!
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:42 PM   #25
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Re: Spill Switch getting stuck on Weil-McLain EG-45 Gas Boiler


Draft thru a chimney and boiler ( the speed of the air moving thru both ) varies greatly with changes in temp and barometric pressure and winds and probably humidity too.

You would need to study physics and convection etc. There are a lot of variables and I am not Bill Nye the science guy.

I suspect Weil McLain is not terribly interested because of some serious legal issues.

The boiler is UL and CGA/AGA Cdn Gas Assoc/American Gas Assoc certified for sale with the original spill switch. Once you change it's position or range there needs to be testing done in case it does not work perfectly and there is a later lawsuit. Maybe they are arrogant like GM with lots of smart azz engineers who don't like to be told their product has a problem.

Fields makes barometric dampers etc and must feel safe certifying their switch which IMO is a big leap of faith on their part. They must have tested it on that boiler and I am not sure if it needs to be UL and CGA approved. Look at the info that came with it or for any stickers.

Point being you cannot hap hazardly change safety control settings and positions once the boiler has been certified.

But there are lots of aftermarket parts companies and they test their products and sell them, so be it.
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Last edited by yuri; 11-10-2017 at 02:44 PM.
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