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Old 01-28-2020, 10:13 PM   #16
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


I made a mistake in post #10, referring to the wall mounted power switch as being for the “night light”. I should have just written “light”. That third switch is just for the big light built into the unit.

The only way that the night light module can turn on the night light is if the control switch (the two red wires from the fan) is closed (turned on).

The only way that the humidity sensor and motion sensor can turn the fan from low speed (which could be “off”) to high speed is if the control switch is closed and the fan switch is also closed.

Because of those two things you really need to have the fan switch always closed and the control switch always closed. This means that to manually switch the fan from low speed (which could be “off”) to high speed for a limited time requires you to toggle the control switch open then closed again. That seems odd, but I just watched a YouTube video describing that operation.

Chris
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:10 AM   #17
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


Thanks again, I've tried it all, but part of my headache, maybe the key, is that I have never seen any action from the Motion Detector, no little light in that sensor, ever. Yet the fan runs, manually, the light, as well, so the unit has power, but seems to be ignoring the plugin modules.. I attached a couple pics, , but I think my next move is to call Panasonic.

I couldn't find a photo of the connecting box on the side of the unit, pretty sure the 'electricians' had closed them up before I had a chance to see them. But since there is power, and the red leads were run, connected, it's hard to imagine how it could be messed up.

I notice there is a later, L2, version, "Panasonic FV-11-15VKL1 150 CFM Ceiling Mounted Customizable Bath Fan with Light and Adjustable Vent Rates" I have the L1, so maybe there was a need for a change. More info that points me to call Panasonic...

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV-.../dp/B00JALSABG

At best, they have the answer, at worst, I have to live with what I have.

Thanks for the help, it shouldn't be this complex...

George...
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:42 AM   #18
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


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Originally Posted by GeorgeC74 View Post
Thanks again, I've tried it all, but part of my headache, maybe the key, is that I have never seen any action from the Motion Detector, no little light in that sensor, ever. Yet the fan runs, manually, the light, as well, so the unit has power, but seems to be ignoring the plugin modules.. I attached a couple pics, , but I think my next move is to call Panasonic.

I couldn't find a photo of the connecting box on the side of the unit, pretty sure the 'electricians' had closed them up before I had a chance to see them. But since there is power, and the red leads were run, connected, it's hard to imagine how it could be messed up.

I notice there is a later, L2, version, "Panasonic FV-11-15VKL1 150 CFM Ceiling Mounted Customizable Bath Fan with Light and Adjustable Vent Rates" I have the L1, so maybe there was a need for a change. More info that points me to call Panasonic...

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV-.../dp/B00JALSABG

At best, they have the answer, at worst, I have to live with what I have.

Thanks for the help, it shouldn't be this complex...

George...
I watched the video again. It says you can tell if the motion sensor is working because of the light. So maybe you have no power to it or bad ones.

If you turn the speed to 0 the fan should stop and when you turn the red wire switch on, off it should come on full speed for the time set.



What is this switch for. My red box.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:55 AM   #19
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


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Old 01-29-2020, 11:57 AM   #20
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


If you want to stop trying to solve this yourself with our help, just tell us.

With these types of issues it’s always best to simplify as much as possible, see what is working, then add in complexity. You’ve mentioned that you’ve not seen the motion sensor work, but so far you haven’t confirmed that the variable speed module works.

1. Unplug the condensation module and motion sensor modules, to ensure that they’re not causing a problem.
2. Turn off the fan and control switches.
3. Turn the variable speed module to zero and the timer to five minutes.
4. Turn on the fan switch. If the fan turns on at this point then the variable speed module isn’t working properly. When the variable speed module is installed, the red control wires become active and the fan should wait for the control switch to be closed before it does anything.
5. Turn on the control switch. The fan should run for five minutes then turn off.

To test the other modules:

1. Turn off the fan and control switches.
2. Unplug the variable speed module and plug one of the others into either of the other two bus positions.
3. Turn on the fan switch. The fan should not start.
4. Turn on the control switch and do whatever is required to trigger the condensation or motion sensor modules. If you’ve successfully triggered the module the fan should turn on at high speed for 20 minutes (or more if the trigger still exists after 20 minutes).

Let us know the test results.

Chris
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:08 PM   #21
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


Hmm…I think that I’d better give up on this. Based on what is said at 4:21 in that video that Neal posted, I’ve got the operation of the control switch backwards. I’ve made a note to never buy one of these fans.

Chris
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Old 01-29-2020, 01:15 PM   #22
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


I’ll correct what I wrote in post #20, in case someone else is using this thread in the future to troubleshoot. The wiring diagram doesn’t help. It calls the control switch as “Hi/Low” (that’s for the variable speed module) and “On/Off” (for the other modules), which made me think that “Hi” and “On” were the same side of the switch, but according to that video, they’re reversed, so the wiring diagram should be “Hi/Low” and “Off/On”.

With these types of issues it’s always best to simplify as much as possible, see what is working, then add in complexity. You’ve mentioned that you’ve not seen the motion sensor work, but so far you haven’t confirmed that the variable speed module works.

1. Unplug the condensation module and motion sensor modules, to ensure that they’re not causing a problem.
2. Turn off the fan and control switches.
3. Turn the variable speed module to zero (that’s the fan low speed) and the timer to five minutes.
4. Turn on the fan switch. If the fan turns on at this point then the variable speed module isn’t working properly. When the variable speed module is installed, the red control wires become active and the fan should run at low speed (“off” in this test) until the control switch is closed before it switches to high speed.
5. Turn on the control switch. The fan should run at high speed for five minutes then turn off (go to low speed).

To test the other modules:

1. Turn off the fan switch and control switches.
2. Unplug the variable speed module (to be certain that it isn’t causing issues) and plug one of the others into either of the other two bus positions.
3. Turn on the fan switch and leave the control switch off and do whatever is required to trigger the condensation or motion sensor modules. If you’ve successfully triggered the module the fan should turn on at high speed for 20 minutes (or more if the trigger still exists after 20 minutes).

So, if I understand this (which is becoming increasing uncertain), the motion/nightlight/humidity sensors will only trigger action if the control switch is in the OFF position. But to manually turn the fan from low speed to high requires toggling the control switch from OFF to ON. If the user does that then the fan will come on at high speed for the timed period then change to low speed. The problem then is that the control switch is in the ON position and the other modules won’t trigger. So to manually turn the fan from low to high speed, the operator should toggle the control switch from OFF to ON to OFF. That will trigger the variable speed module to run at high speed for the set time, and at the end of that time the other modules can run.

(I think…)

Chris
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Last edited by Chris616; 01-29-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 01-29-2020, 01:19 PM   #23
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


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What is this switch for. My red box.
Neal, that is high speed control that is part of the base fan package (not part of the optional modules). It allows the installer to select between three different operating speeds for the high speed of the fan. On page 6 of the manual that I'm looking at they call it a "Pick-A-Flow" feature.

Chris
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Last edited by Chris616; 01-29-2020 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:01 PM   #24
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
Neal, that is high speed control that is part of the base fan package (not part of the optional modules). It allows the installer to select between three different operating speeds for the high speed of the fan. On page 6 of the manual that I'm looking at they call it a "Pick-A-Flow" feature.

Chris
Yes I saw that in the video after asking.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:12 PM   #25
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


Seeing that both Hall & Master bath fans are acting the same, I am sadly at wits end. I'll call Panasonic Support, and see what they have to say. Else I think we're all spinning our wheels. I certainly want to thank you & Neal for all your efforts. Like you have, Ive been back and forth over all the materials repeatedly, learn a little here, there, spot some differences in what I initially thought, but as I've said, earlier, not seeing the Motion indicator, ever is the most meaningful. That both could be bad, comes back to maybe being a design issue. Watching the wiring video, reminds me of what I saw, and the sketch I blew up, gave to the 'electricians' the contractor used. Most likely, nobody complains because they don't know how it really should work.

To now get at the unit wiring, in the attic, is really beyond this 78 year old guy. I've been up there before, installed original, replacement fans, but like the last one, I opened the ceiling to get access. Not happening now, after we just spent nearly $45k on the remodel. I'm pretty sure, seeing the wires run, and the switch wiring, that it is correct. So that leaves it back at Panasonic's feet. As I said, if they can find a local guru, more limber, able to find, fix the problem, I'm willing to pay the freight, but some of it should be their responsibility, to my mind.. That missing motion indicator is the key, to my mind.

I can truly understand your avoidance of these fans, what I'd like to do is to have one on a workbench, wide open so I could see it work correctly before installing one.. They really should be Plug & Play. I appreciate the DC motor's quiet running, relative to prior fans I've installed here. Sure thought these were well reviewed, easy to use. Having to train guests how to activate the fan is a joke...
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:25 PM   #26
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


My thought for the day, i was tied up, replacing my '06 F150 headlights, is that I'll take all the modules out, replace the dust covers and see what that does. Then give Panasonic support a call...

I hate not knowing what might be wrong. Too many hours spent reading, staring at the drawings, videos.

An IPA awaits...
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Old 02-02-2020, 02:01 PM   #27
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


Whoa, shocker this morning in the Hall Bath! My wife had apparently left the fan on, I didn't notice late last night, but this morning, while it's still dark here (6:30 AM), I see the Night light is on, and not the Fan! I walk in, a moment later the fan fires up! Walked away, fan stopped. Flashed iPhone flashlight on the ceiling, Night light went off! The only switch that was ON, was the fan switch.

Working like it should! I am/was startled, shocked! Tele me at least that one is wired right, a big relief/verification. I do need to see if the Motion Sensor is working.. OK, just did that, and yes the Hall is working as it should after all. I have not changed anything, other than leaving the Fan switch On.


So now I need to re-think whatever is going on in the Master, It does not seem to time out, so there is no way, without changing something to tell if the Motion sensor is working, I put the Fan switch On a while ago and it has not slowed or stopped... No shower yet this morning, so the humidity should not be activated..

Just to keep us all on our toes, stuff happens I guess..

George
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:22 AM   #28
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC74 View Post
I can truly understand your avoidance of these fans, what I'd like to do is to have one on a workbench, wide open so I could see it work correctly before installing one.. They really should be Plug & Play. I appreciate the DC motor's quiet running, relative to prior fans I've installed here. Sure thought these were well reviewed, easy to use. Having to train guests how to activate the fan is a joke...
I have not read this whole thread, but this fan does sound overly smart as it is in it needs a well-edcucated HVAC technician to wire and program it. Some suggestions. Most at least dumb fans and heaters come in two pieces: The box and the guts. You should probably be able to take out the center part and put it on a bench, to test it out and run it through its settings.

You should also get a non contact voltage tester so you know which wires are doing what in the ceiling so you can wire it right once you figure out what is up. Being too lazy to try to read and figure out how your fan works i will make some suggestions.

Turn off the always on exhaust, unless you need some constant circulation, otherwise you are just pumping conditioned air out of the house.

Override the timing functions on the fan and install a timed switch on the wall. That way you or guests can just hit the appropriate button to chose how long the fan should go on depending on the circumstance on the ground.

https://www.amazon.com/ENERLITES-HET...=ATVPDKIKX0DER
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:50 AM   #29
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Re: Panasonic Whisper fans (2)


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Originally Posted by Photobug View Post
I have not read this whole thread, but this fan does sound overly smart as it is in it needs a well-edcucated HVAC technician to wire and program it. Some suggestions. Most at least dumb fans and heaters come in two pieces: The box and the guts. You should probably be able to take out the center part and put it on a bench, to test it out and run it through its settings.

You should also get a non contact voltage tester so you know which wires are doing what in the ceiling so you can wire it right once you figure out what is up. Being too lazy to try to read and figure out how your fan works i will make some suggestions.

Turn off the always on exhaust, unless you need some constant circulation, otherwise you are just pumping conditioned air out of the house.

Override the timing functions on the fan and install a timed switch on the wall. That way you or guests can just hit the appropriate button to chose how long the fan should go on depending on the circumstance on the ground.

https://www.amazon.com/ENERLITES-HET...=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Interesting product, that countdown timer... But the unit itself is supposed to be accomplishing this, related to the humidity sensed, so I'm still willing to spend some time to sort out why it's not functioning.

I have two or three of the little non-contact testers as well as an assortment of VOMs, clamp-on ammeters, Fluke as well as Sperry, and my old Bell System needle meters.. Problem is, that overhead, attic space wiring is inaccessible, or at least not without tearing up the newly remodeled, painted Master Bath.

I now know the Hall bath is correct, so I'll concentrate on the Master. Pull all the modules, see what's up at that point.

Side consideration, for the future is to add an occupancy sense switch for the lights, I have the Fan light and medicine cabinet fixture tied together, but maybe in the middle of the night, I don't want the blinding brilliance, so maybe not..

The main concern remains the fan operation...

Thanks for the thoughts, though...

George
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