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Old 12-28-2013, 11:05 AM   #1
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Moving Buderus Intake Outside?


We made an "investment" in this furnace a few years ago, or at least that is what we thought. Has been nothing but problems, it's not easy to find someone to service them, serving and parts are twice as expensive, and HVAC guys at home shows cringe when we say we installed a "Blue Flame" unit. I live in New England, US. The furnace is a Logano G125 and if I remeber correctly the computer has already gone dysfunctional and remains on its manual setting.



We have an old classic house, used to run a coal fired stove in here about 100 years ago. The Buderus was suppose to be so efficient that it no longer needed a traditional cheminee to vent because the exhaust is so cool, so we had a wedge shaped vent at ground level right where they knocked out that window and boarded it up. Problem is there is a bedroom window above the vent on the first and second floor, my window on the second floor is always open in the summer and the fumes would rise up against the house and get sucked right into my bedroom with the fan I run in the window pulling in air. It was bad some days it smelt really bad upstairs and began to make me light headed so we called the lousy installers back to now install a full length stainless vent that rises up above the roof line at our cost and so overall cost was now about $1,000 higher then first quoted. That is the pipe on the right side you see connected and lousily sealed with foam rather then mortar like used on their original vent.



We stopped having the installer service it since he never wants to come out and fails to make appointments, we had another company service it not long ago and right after they left it started smelling heavily like furnace fumes in the house....they incorrectly installed a gasket. Then the night they left the second time we stopped getting heat in the middle of the night turns out they forgot to turn the oil supply back on. Only one floor of our house is heated with baseboards using the furnace the other is propane, however both floors sinks/showers are ran off the furnace.

It kicks on and off quite often but does not run long, I work in the basement and it is very annoying when listening to music so I did some investigating. From the first floor it is louder since it was recently cleaned when it turns on and I assume that is because of greater air flow they did say it was pretty dirty...if I put my hand over this white intake tube in the red circle when it is running it gets at least 50% quieter! Is there any reason I can't connect this inlet tube to the already existing wedge vent outside that is not being used anymore?? Right now it draws really dusty air from a shop environment basement but the temperature is never below freezing....if it draws outside air it will be much cleaner but can reach sometimes below -0F in the winter BUT it would be so much quieter!!
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:12 AM   #2
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As long as the old vent doesn't have a back draft damper in it. you can use it for a combustion air intake.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
As long as the old vent doesn't have a back draft damper in it. you can use it for a combustion air intake.
Hmm does this help identify? The new stack is on the left and the old vent is on the right:


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Old 12-28-2013, 12:06 PM   #4
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If it was mine I would remove that hood outside and run proper sized 3 or 4" PVC pipe from the boiler to the outside and put a 90 deg elbow on the intake outside and turn it downwards to the ground. If you use that hood you will have to remove the internal screen and with wind and turbulence it probably will affect the burner and cause more problems. You also need to keep the snow away from that intake if you get snow.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:35 PM   #5
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Just figured the hood was already there, is PVC better then stainless tubing for intake reasons? We have some left over metal tubing, with the internal hood removed wouldn't it do the same as a 90 degree elbow? Does that large screen really restrict air? We do get snow up to that vent but shovel it out, would the cooler outside air make it run a little less efficient or burn more fuel?
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:56 PM   #6
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Airflow and resistance is critical in some units. Imagining what that would be with that contraption is hard to do. Ideally you want long radius PVC elbows or 45 deg elbows to run that intake from the boiler to outside. The LEAST resistance the better. Gets pretty complicated for a non tech to understand and it sounds like that burner is finicky already. The install manual for it should have specs for how that intake should be done. Is that intake ring plastic? looks like white PVC. If not and it is metal then you must use metal and follow the manufacturers specs.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:12 PM   #7
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]Just figured the hood was already there, is PVC better then stainless tubing for intake reasons? No We have some left over metal tubing, with the internal hood removed wouldn't it do the same as a 90 degree elbow? don't know Does that large screen really restrict air? YES and it can get hoar frost or debris on it, lack of airflow is dangerous We do get snow up to that vent but shovel it out, would the cooler outside air make it run a little less efficient or burn more fuel?neither[/QUOTE]
.....
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:14 PM   #8
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Makes sense, I will dig out that install manual. I do believe that ring is plastic, and are you saying do not use 90 degree elbows between the boiler and outside?

I'm thinking the best idea then is to run a PVC tube through that wooden window blocking panel at the very top as high off the ground as possible, then use just a 90 degree elbow on the outside. Does not matter what the standoff distance is between the turn-down and house?
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:52 AM   #9
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45 deg elbows have 1/2 the resistance of 90 deg so use them as much as possible. each 90 deg el adds 5 equivalent feet of pipe resistance so you want to keep the total effective length down. you can use 90s. try keep the elbow close to the house for cosmetic reasons and shorter the better.
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:15 PM   #10
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So regardless I should still have one 90 in the system (on the outside?)

What about putting the outer metal hood over the 90 outside to hide the PVC? Would it have to stick out lower than the hood opening so air blows around the tip of the PVC?
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:39 AM   #11
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you need one outside and turned down so no rain gets in. you want to leave it wide open as you will get wind swirling effects by the house and when the snow builds up etc and that can affect the amount of air going in etc. putting it in that hood may cause some strange air currents around it. may also void the warranty on the boiler if not vented according to the instructions in the install manual and your house ins may have a problem with it too. the boiler is UL rated/approved for the venting in the manual not some homemade setup. keep your pipe away from the exhaust pipe on the boiler too or it could melt.
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