It's time to replace our 20 year old Amana Air Command 90, which started tripping the roll out sensor last winter. I pulled 4 quotes, which came back at the following prices, all including a wifi thermostat in the package:
Maytag PCG2TE 80k 2 stage 96% AFUE - $3200
12 Year Warranty parts and exchanger
Bryant - Did not specify Model, 96% AFUE 2 Stage - $3304
10 Year Warranty, lifetime heat exchanger
Payne - Did not specify model, 96% AFUE 2 Stage - $2827
10 Year parts, 20 year heat exchanger
I'm not looking the go the cheapest route, just want to make sure I get the best investment in this furnace...this is Zone 7 in far NW WI.
They're all the same efficiency and 2 stage. IMO the Maytag is out because the lack of lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger doesn't justify the higher price compared to the Payne and Bryant.
Is the lifetime heat exchanger warranty (or any other features) worth the extra $500-600 to go from the Payne to the Bryant or Ruud? Between the Bryant and the Ruud, and major difference to choose one or the other? I like the features listed on the Ruud and the thermostat is a bit fancier, but I'm not an HVAC guy.
The installation will matter most in how well the equipment functions.
LP can be very expensive and pricing can be unstable.
Have you considered a heat pump LP hybrid unit?
I asked each of the contractors and all 4 told me that by the time I'm running on propane in October-April, it's typically so cold that the heat pump isn't going to run efficiently, and I'd be primarily on propane anyways. The house is 2x6 construction and very well insulated. We don't usually even consider turning the heat on until daytime highs are below 50. Basically, our heating season where it is still warm enough to run a heat pump is so short it isn't worth it.
I've wondered about a duel fuel solution with an electric plenum, though.
Other than the one spike a number of years ago, I've been able to reliably get propane at roughly $1 per gallon. Our electric coop is 9.5 cents/kWh, so short of propane doubling in price, electric is far more expensive for us. We have a 1000 gallon tank, which is enough to get us through more than a full year of heating, and I'm religious about filling it up when prices are low to be able to weather a spike.
Wow... $1.00 a gallon? We're paying closer to $3 a gallon here in central/western VA! We don't use it as out primary heat source (living room fireplace and outdoor BBQ only).
Things to day don't last as long as they used to. If you get 20 years out of any of these furnaces, be happy. All other things being equal, get the Payne. And remember, the heat exchange warranty is parts only. Labor will still be a couple of grand and up, depending on the furnace.
Wow! I can see why people steer away from it at that price. We only hit those prices for a month or 2 during the shortage a few years back. I'm running on propane from last year at $.85/gallon, and I'm locked in for a pre-buy this fall at $.95/gallon for 425 gallons, which will keep me topped off all winter.
Get rid of the contractors that are not providing model numbers!
Unless you have a large or poorly insulated house, be leary of getting an 80k btu furnace - it replaces a 100k mid efficiency. Too much heat for most houses.
As far as heatpumps go, without doing calculations, it's a guess as to if there are any savings.
Keep in mind fuel prices can rise in the future. It does not make sense to base decision that can impact you for 15-20 years on today's fuel prices.
If you're getting an a/c it still may make sense to get a heatpump instead and have a dual fuel setup despite propane being cheap now.
There are other benefits. You don't need the intense heat for a furnace when it's in the 40s outside. Even first stage heat of a furnace supplies way too much heat in mild weather.
Heatpumps have much lower capacity than furnaces, which is beneficial in mild weather.
Dual fuel gives the best of both system types.
Even in your climate I'm sure there are many days in the spring and fall that are mild.
Modern heatpumps are pretty efficient - even well below freezing decent ones can supply 2 kwh or more of heat per 1 kwh used.
Efficiency is not the problem as much as capacity loss is. In a dual fuel application, the furnace takes over when the heatpump can no longer keep up. It's can be done automatically with a temperature sensor.
A load calculation can be done to determine the balance point of different capacity heatpumps. they're sized for cooling in a dual fuel application usually.
Thanks for the reply and the information, that makes sense. Unfortunately, we installed central air 2 years ago, I'd really like to not replace the new Carrier unit. I love the idea of a heat pump but for the money, location, and climate I'd rather put in an outdoor boiler with a coil in the central air. We have some acreage and fuel costs would be manual labor, with the ability to stockpile for years to come fairly easily.
I concur on the no model numbers...it was literally an estimate on a piece of scratch paper. He's got a good name in the area but I wasn't super impressed with him. The leaves it to the Maytag and the Ruud, which the point that lifetime heat exchanger only covering parts complicates a bit.
for any 2-stage furnace you need properly sized and controlled by a 2-stage thermostat to get the full benefit.
i don't know who makes maytag. could be re-badged goodman or something.
goodman/amana make 2-stage furnaces that only allow the staging to be controlled by the board - avoid them completely. anything advertised with "comfort bridge" or "dual saver".
there's a version of their 2-stage variable sold under daikin that allows for t-stat staging and also supports a communicating stat with advanced features.
If there is a life time guarantee then you should go for it. Because for repairs when the system gets older cost you a lot more. Life time guarantee worth a few 100 more $.It is going to be more cost effective in the long run.
Well, yes and no. If it costs $2000 (in today's dollars) in labor to replace a "free" part (the heat exchanger) and then something else that isn't covered goes out (another $1000), it's just throwing good money after bad. After about 12-15 years, if a component goes out, you're probably better off replacing it.
If your contractor wants $2000 to change a heat exchanger, find another! it's more profitable to sell a new furnace so they raise the repair price to push new equipment.
Now generally after 15 years even under warranty, heat exchanger replacement isn't worth while. More minor repairs $500 or less can be worth while.
i don't like that one because the variable ecm motor the way it's programmed doesn't compensate well for duct pressure, the airflow really drops off as the pressure increases. there are minimal heating blower adjustments available so if the ducts are a bit undersized you're sol.
the entire point of having this type of motor, beyond energy savings is have full airflow maintained over a wide static pressure range.
it's worse than an x13 or even a psc motor with discrete speed taps because if the heating airflow is too low at factory setting, the next speed up can be used.
leave it to carrier to cripple their mid grade equipment to push the infinity series.
between that and expensive parts i would look at other brands.
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