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Old 04-28-2015, 07:31 PM   #1
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How to convert existing R22 system to R410A


First off I would like to say hell to everyone here. I am a jack of all trades. I am 33 years old and am a journeyman electrician, HVAC service tech, electronics tech, automotive tech, and the list goes on. I love HVAC!

Can you convert your existing system from R22 to R410A? Well..... the answer is yes, yes you can. I have converted many, including my own, saved on electricity in the process.

Lets start with a heat pump split system and what you will need to get it done.

1- Know what your model number is and size of equipment(tons)
i.e. R2H336GKB (3 TON R22 HEAT PUMP)
REM2P3600A (3 TON R22 AIR HANDLER)

2- An R410A compressor of equilivent BTU. The "36" in the model
numbers above represent the tonage and BTU, 36,000 BTU is 3 ton

3- An R410A accumulator. The one in there will not work.

4- An R410A expansion valve (TXV) inside and outside. the one in there will not work. This is the refrigerant metering device. If you have pistons inside and out the you are good, no need to change. If you have a piston in the heat pump and a TXV inside then you need to change the one inside to R410A. A 3 ton R22 piston (lol) will meter R410A just the same, I promise you!

5- THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU NEED:
+SKILLS
: YOU CANNOT DO THIS WITHOUT THE PROPER SKILLS
+REFRIGERANT RECOVERY MACHINE AND TANK: YOU CAN GO TO PRISON FOR VENTING R22!!!
+VACUUM PUMP: THIS PUMPS THE MOISTURE OUT OF THE SYSTEM
+R11X FLUSH: THIS CLEANS THE R22 OIL AND RESIDUE OUT
OF THE SYSTEM
+OXYGEN/ACETYLINE AND BRAZING RODS (15% SILVER)
+R410A REFRIGERANT:
(MUST BE EPA CERTIFIED TO PURCHASE)
+REFRIGERANT SCALE: TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOU HAVE PUT
IN THE SYSTEM
+ BI-DIRECTIONAL FILTER DRYER

Install all the components and check for leaks. I dont know how other techs search for leaks but I usually use Nitrogen, since were doing this ourselves, I use 40-50 psi R410A. If the gauges do not move in 20 minutes, theres no leaks, i also use soapy water on all connections.
if there are no leaks, flush out the system. It may take a couple of flush kits but thats ok. now, I usually purge the freshly flushed system with R410A before I pull a vacuum. Pull a vacuum for at least 45 minutes. Read the Heat Pump name plate to see how much R22 the system needed. Its usually in ounces. (i.e. 110 oz=6.875lbs) 100/16(oz per lb)
the vacuum will pull in the refrigerant. I would stop at 4.5. Start the system. Observe the pressures. Note how much more you put in it. to charge it properly, look at the red gauge(high side) temp scale and take a temp reading of the liquid line. If they are about 10-14 degrees difference in those numbers, you are properly charged. Read the scale and take down the number of pounds you put in. Relabel the unit and denote it has been converted to R410A and how much is in it. Thats it!

Total cost around $1000
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
pointedspider;2000242]First off I would like to say hell to everyone here. I am a jack of all trades. I am 33 years old and am a journeyman electrician, HVAC service tech, electronics tech, automotive tech, and the list goes on. I love HVAC!

Quote:
+[B]OXYGEN/ACETYLINE AND BRAZING RODS (15% SILVER)
what are you using this for? Of course if you do braze you know you must purge the system with nitrogen and maintain it when brazing. I guess you just forgot to mention that.
Quote:
+R410A REFRIGERANT:
(MUST BE EPA CERTIFIED TO PURCHASE)
when did they change that? from http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/faq.html#q3

Quote:
Is section 608 technician certification required in order to purchase R-410A?
HFC refrigerant substitutes that do not contain an ozone-depleting substance (such as R-410A or R-134a) are not covered under the refrigerant sales restriction. Therefore, section 608 technician certification is not required in order to purchase HFC refrigerant substitutes that do not contain an ozone-depleting substance. It remains illegal to knowingly vent HFC substitutes during the maintenance, service, repair, or disposal of appliances.
you have made this sound too easy and in doing so you are very incomplete in your instruction, well, not really instruction but more of a summary but really, what good does a summary do anybody?
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:08 PM   #3
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converting r22 system to 410 a is not a diy project...
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:15 PM   #4
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you are right about the nitrogen. but i find the task easy. ill be more informative next time
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:41 PM   #5
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Going from r22 to 410a is silly - might as well get a new machine with a full warranty.

can do 407c but compressor oil has to be changed, or one of the direct drop in replacements that works with mineral oil.
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:50 PM   #6
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The pressures that 410 produces can cause the existing lines to rupture and cause severe damage to property and people why would any one tell people to do this on a diy site. People diy to save money not spend thousands on a hack job and endanger other people and themselves
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by user_12345a View Post
Going from r22 to 410a is silly - might as well get a new machine with a full warranty.
Yeah, I tend to agree... a bit silly. You have to replace 1/2 the system due to incompatibilities, and with that you get no warranty, no promise on how long it'll last. You may as well just replace the entire system and be done with it.

I should also add that any original seer or hspf rating the machine had is out the window

Last edited by Bob Sanders; 04-28-2015 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:00 PM   #8
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Waste of time. You can't just "convert".
If you want R410, buy equipment that's rated for it's use.
It's also a poor idea to use straight refrigerant for pressure testing. A small change in ambient conditions will lead to large swings in psi reading.
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedspider View Post
First off I would like to say hell to everyone here. I am a jack of all trades. I am 33 years old and am a journeyman electrician, HVAC service tech, electronics tech, automotive tech, and the list goes on. I love HVAC!

Can you convert your existing system from R22 to R410A? Well..... the answer is yes, yes you can. I have converted many, including my own, saved on electricity in the process.

Lets start with a heat pump split system and what you will need to get it done.

1- Know what your model number is and size of equipment(tons)
i.e. R2H336GKB (3 TON R22 HEAT PUMP)
REM2P3600A (3 TON R22 AIR HANDLER)

2- An R410A compressor of equilivent BTU. The "36" in the model
numbers above represent the tonage and BTU, 36,000 BTU is 3 ton

3- An R410A accumulator. The one in there will not work.

4- An R410A expansion valve (TXV) inside and outside. the one in there will not work. This is the refrigerant metering device. If you have pistons inside and out the you are good, no need to change. If you have a piston in the heat pump and a TXV inside then you need to change the one inside to R410A. A 3 ton R22 piston (lol) will meter R410A just the same, I promise you!

Using an R22 piston, will over feed the coils.

5- THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU NEED:
+SKILLS
: YOU CANNOT DO THIS WITHOUT THE PROPER SKILLS
+REFRIGERANT RECOVERY MACHINE AND TANK: YOU CAN GO TO PRISON FOR VENTING R22!!!
+VACUUM PUMP: THIS PUMPS THE MOISTURE OUT OF THE SYSTEM
+R11X FLUSH: THIS CLEANS THE R22 OIL AND RESIDUE OUT
OF THE SYSTEM
+OXYGEN/ACETYLINE AND BRAZING RODS (15% SILVER)
+R410A REFRIGERANT:
(MUST BE EPA CERTIFIED TO PURCHASE)

No USA EPA certification required to buy R410A.Its in the same class as R134A.

+REFRIGERANT SCALE: TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOU HAVE PUT
IN THE SYSTEM
+ BI-DIRECTIONAL FILTER DRYER

Install all the components and check for leaks. I dont know how other techs search for leaks but I usually use Nitrogen, since were doing this ourselves,

I use 40-50 psi R410A. That IS an EPA violation.

If the gauges do not move in 20 minutes, theres no leaks, i also use soapy water on all connections.
if there are no leaks, flush out the system. It may take a couple of flush kits but thats ok.


now, I usually purge the freshly flushed system with R410A before I pull a vacuum. Unless your flushing it by using a recovery machine and cylinder, that would be another EPA violation.

Pull a vacuum for at least 45 minutes.

With all the RX11 used to "flush" the system. 45 minutes isn' going to be a good vacuum. Try using a vacuum gauge(micron).

Read the Heat Pump name plate to see how much R22 the system needed. Its usually in ounces. (i.e. 110 oz=6.875lbs) 100/16(oz per lb)
the vacuum will pull in the refrigerant. I would stop at 4.5. Start the system. Observe the pressures. Note how much more you put in it. to charge it properly, look at the red gauge(high side) temp scale and take a temp reading of the liquid line.


If they are about 10-14 degrees difference in those numbers, you are properly charged. Not really, specially if the house is hot when your charging with a fixed metering device.

Read the scale and take down the number of pounds you put in. Relabel the unit and denote it has been converted to R410A and how much is in it. Thats it!

Total cost around $1000
A person can buy a 3 ton Goodman heat pump for less then $1,000.00 on line. $886.04 at acwholesalers.com. Which leaves plenty of money for a new metering device or the inside unit. And a few bucks to spare towards tools.


While your idea may sound good at first. It actually cost more upfront, and probably in the long run.
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:50 PM   #10
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Why would you convert to 410a and have a bunch of mismatched equipment to try and figure out how to make work without the proper skills or knowledge. This is just asking for trouble.

Drop in some MO99 to replace the R22 and problem solved. No oil change necessary, no alterations to the existing system, all good.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:01 PM   #11
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OP hasn't come back to back up his claims.......
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jnaas2 View Post
The pressures that 410 produces can cause the existing lines to rupture and cause severe damage to property and people why would any one tell people to do this on a diy site. People diy to save money not spend thousands on a hack job and endanger other people and themselves

I may be wrong , but my research is if you buy Mueller refrigeration copper tubing , it is the same now , post R410a as it was when R22 was the norm . Am I correct ?

If so , why would the tubing in a converted system burst ?

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

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Old 05-01-2015, 07:57 AM   #13
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Since many of you pros have shot this down, I would suggest that it be pulled before some DIY'er hurts themselves!

Just my thoughts!
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrTwister View Post
I may be wrong , but my research is if you buy Mueller refrigeration copper tubing , it is the same now , post R410a as it was when R22 was the norm . Am I correct ?

If so , why would the tubing in a converted system burst ?

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

Coils can have different pressure ratings, plus many older systems were soft soldered in and that will not stand up to R410 operating pressures
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:26 AM   #15
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Id love to hear a response from the jack of all trades OP
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