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Old 07-22-2020, 10:40 PM   #91
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Quote:
Is what you're suggesting going to make it feel even weaker?
No - the board is seeing the call for cooling as if you have a 2-stage a/c and it's on low.

Putting that jumper in will raise the airflow dramatically initially.

From there, the airflow will need to be tweaked, likely lowered to 800-900 cfm (down from 1100-1200 factory) You'll still feel more airflow than now once it's set up correctly.

It's probably moving 700 to 800 cfm now.

Normal airflow is 400 cfm per ton, so 800 but on a lousy duct system not designed for cooling with floor returns it can take quite a bit more (450+ cfm per ton) to get decent performance.

It's not an exact science especially when dealing with an old house.

It's a good idea to test the heating before they come in case there are issues with it. (just beware, the first time it's fired for an extended time, it may set off smoke detectors as the heat exchanger comes from factory with a thin layer of oil)
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I am not in the business of any trade I give advice on. I have non-professional hvac experience + good knowledge of theory. Attempt repairs at your own risk. Never jump out safeties - especially pressure switches - on a furnace for testing with fuel supply on; use a meter. Do not troubleshoot with live line voltage present unless there's no alternative.

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Old 07-23-2020, 08:58 AM   #92
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Here's another shot of the jumpers. Is this better?




Help me choose a new furnace-image00005.jpg
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:50 AM   #93
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Yes - better.

Everything is at factory.

Definitely test the heat before having someone out as the gas pressure may need checking/adjustment - the meter can be clocked by you first to verify proper input. (i'll give more info later) but test is not 100% accurate.

Wise to check temperature rise too even though factory blower setting should be okay: https://www.structuretech.com/blog/d...2060%20degrees.

The only thing I would do is set the heat delay jumper to 15 minutes temporarily - so you can see it run on low fire, then switch to high, test in both modes.

After, you set it back to factory, complain and say the furnace stays on low fire so the company can see their installers are making elementary mistakes.


-----------
For a/c, the cooling speed jumper should be set to position C after Y and Y2 are linked and if you still don't have enough airflow can try B. A - factory as stated before is too high.

Let the contractor deal with it.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:49 PM   #94
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Today I spoke with the the manager of the HVAC company. He agreed to fix all things I had complained about. I listed them in an email (I may have missed one or two) that I sent to the administrative person.


They say they'll send technicians out as soon as possible to fix these problems. If it's true, I hope this will be over soon. I had issues with a water heater recently, and still have 3 more minor repairs to do on the house to get things to where they should be.


I'll keep you posted. Thanks again so much!
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Old 07-27-2020, 08:45 PM   #95
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Okay, so this morning, the HVAC technicians showed up early, and started work on the things on my list.

They

- installed the condensate pump
- allegedly commissioned both the cooling and heating
When I asked the tech. about the A/C fan setting, he said it was on low and should be on low, acc. to the technical books.

- sealed the air leaks
- Promised to replace the broken fastening knob for the access panel. Yeah, it cracked a few days ago, cause of course it did.

-I bugged them about getting paperwork proving that I got the furnace I got instead of the one on the invoice, but was told "Call the office" blah blah. I emailed head office, we'll see what happens.


HOWEVER, tonight, like Saturday night, the cooling is not keeping up. Acc. to Environment Canada, it's currently 28 with Humidex 36 outside. The thermostat is set at 21.5, but it's showing the reading as 23.5 .



My old furnace never had trouble keeping up with heatwaves. Is this normal? It's now happened twice.

Last edited by Shplad; 07-27-2020 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:01 PM   #96
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Do you still have no jumper between Y1 and Y2?

They may have looked at the a/c size and decided low cool cfm at factory position will provide enough airflow.

Normal a/c flow is anywhere for 350 to 450 cfm per ton on paper but in the real world not enough on the lower end of the range.

More airflow may be required on your duct system to get proper cooling, especially if it's leaky, you have poor supply on the second floor and returns only at floor level.

If it was me, I would correct the problem myself after they come back - it's pretty easy.

Do you know what they did to the furnace? Setting gas pressure, staging delay, checking temperature rise?
Did they run the furnace for a few minutes?

Quote:
The thermostat is set at 2.15, but it's showing the reading as 23.5 .
21.5 is freezing but if it was able to maintain that before under similar conditions it should be able to now.

With the humidity controlled many people are comfortable at 75f/24c.
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:07 PM   #97
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Sorry, that was a typo. I meant 21.5C Cf course, we're talking Celsius in Canada.

I asked him if the size A/C unit I had (2-ton) indicated a low or high fanjumper setting. He insisted low. I'll check the jumper in the morning. I'm again too stressed to look at it.


If I change the A/C fan setting, is there any risk, to me or to the equipment?


They ran the furnace for about 15-20 minutes. I don't know what setting they fiddled with. There was a lot of talking, but I was upstairs. I only push so much at a time, because sometimes workers will just walk off and say "Don't tell me how to do my job", which often is said by the workers who...don't know how to do their job.

Yes, registers only on the floors and it's a split-level house, which never had even heat distribution on the upper floor. It's gotta be 25C in the room I'm in right now.





Quote:
Originally Posted by user_12345a View Post
Do you still have no jumper between Y1 and Y2?

They may have looked at the a/c size and decided low cool cfm at factory position will provide enough airflow.

Normal a/c flow is anywhere for 350 to 450 cfm per ton on paper but in the real world not enough on the lower end of the range.

More airflow may be required on your duct system to get proper cooling, especially if it's leaky, you have poor supply on the second floor and returns only at floor level.

If it was me, I would correct the problem myself after they come back - it's pretty easy.

Do you know what they did to the furnace? Setting gas pressure, staging delay, checking temperature rise?
Did they run the furnace for a few minutes?



21.5 is freezing but if it was able to maintain that before under similar conditions it should be able to now.

With the humidity controlled many people are comfortable at 75f/24c.

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Old 07-27-2020, 09:14 PM   #98
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Quote:
I asked him if the size A/C unit I had (2-ton) indicated a low or high fanjumper setting. He insisted low. I'll check the jumper in the morning. I'm again to stressed to look at it.


Factory A tap without the jumper = 780 cubic feet per minute.
With problems cooling the second floor can try 900 cfm or greater and if it has trouble dehumidifying, back off.

Not an exact science.
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:17 PM   #99
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


That's very helpful, user. I'll mention that when I scream...I mean calmly discuss the issue with the HVAC company tomorrow morning. At this point, I kinda want them to do it, just so it will cost them money. How much time do I have to waste after paying 4 thousand bucks for a furnace?
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:28 PM   #100
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


With the Y1-Y2 jumper, factory A is closer to 1200 cfm, so the idea is, jump the Y terminals and then adjust down a bit as I brought up.

Just tell them you want more airflow, as it may be needed to compensate for poor ductwork. In a new house with ductwork engineered for cooling, 780 cfm would be okay.

I do encourage you seal all accessible duct joints, seal off all basement vents, and adjust balancing dampers to push more air upstairs.

Quote:
How much time do I have to waste after paying 4 thousand bucks for a furnace?
For 4 grand they should have ran the combustion air pipe outside!

I was thinking your install was closer to $3.5k considering the lack of commissioning and 1-pipe install.
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Old 08-30-2020, 10:55 PM   #101
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


So, after everything, I now have most of the things I asked the dealer for, perhaps minus the proper commissioning of the the A/C fan setting.

After a little nagging, I ended up getting a proper invoice showing the correct furnace model. I also got a copy of the warranty certificate, just in case.

I'm comfortable enough with it on the setting it's currently using to be happy. Granted, sometimes when it's extremely hot/humid out, the temperature lags a little.

I guess we'll soon see how this furnace and its setup performs in cold weather. The temperatures are approaching fall-like weather in Southern Ontario.

I figure I got most of these other things I asked for/paid for. I will now get one of those more sparse filters you guys suggested, and leave it at that.

Thanks SOOOOO much for all your help. Another success story.
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Last edited by Shplad; 08-30-2020 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:02 PM   #102
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Thanks for following up, many don't and we have no idea if there there was ever a resolution.

You can tweak the a/c fan speed up a little yourself with help from here if needed down the road - it's really not a big deal, 10 minutes max to do it.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:24 PM   #103
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Yes, thanks user. I read the previous posts about that. It's just I'm in the middle of a lot of things right now. And I still hope to move in the next 6-8 months.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:56 PM   #104
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


yah cooling season is basically done and if you move it doesn't matter.
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