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Old 06-19-2020, 09:50 PM   #61
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


I believe the electronics in the motor have some protection but there are limits - you can always get a whole house surge protector to protect new furnace and other electronics.
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I am not in the business of any trade I give advice on. I have non-professional hvac experience + good knowledge of theory. Attempt repairs at your own risk. Never jump out safeties - especially pressure switches - on a furnace for testing with fuel supply on; use a meter. Do not troubleshoot with live line voltage present unless there's no alternative.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:20 PM   #62
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


19 years ago, I built a house in Southeast Michigan. The general, HVAC and plumbing contractor were the same guy. He installed a Janitrol furnace (which another HVAC guy called "Junkitrol") and Goodman A/C. At the time, Janitrol was a Goodman brand, long-since retired. Through some really bad winters and summers, the dynamic duo have stood the test, and are on duty to this day. The A/C unit had a hiccup the last 2 seasons, but a shot of electrical contact cleaner cleared it up. Goodman makes all their products in the U.S. under the Goodman and Amana (HVAC only, no appliances) brands. According to the link below, they are available in Canada. My two cents.

https://www.furnaceprices.ca/furnace...nds-in-canada/
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:56 AM   #63
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Well, I had another person in today for an estimate.

He was in an out of the house in under 5 mins. Hand-written "estimate" has two lines, one for each of two different furnaces, price and warranty. No model nos. No other details. Nothing.

When he asked, I told him I wanted a typed estimate with all the details, which he said he'd give me after he gave me the initial written estimate.

He was wearing a mask, but wasn't careful about social distancing at all.

Carrier Infinity 2 stage ECM

$4900 (Is this even a basic unit as I had askedd, cause it' s $1300 more than I had requested)


American Standard 3600
$3600


Like another guy I just spoke with, at another company, he seemed unaware that I needed a 96% efficiency furnace to qualify for the H.E.R. rebate. He was fairly sure it was 95% efficiency that qualified. When I worked in the IT industry, none of this would've been considered acceptable/professional behaviour.

Does anyone agree with me that when you're buying a product for close to $4000, the company installing it should at least know the basics of the rebate relating to it, or do you think I'm asking too much? I'll be posting the typed estimate when I get it, if it's even worth considering.

I chose this company because of their high rating on a consumer-related review site. I'll wait for the typed estimate, but I'm not impressed.
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Old 06-23-2020, 12:07 PM   #64
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Quote:
Does anyone agree with me that when you're buying a product for close to $4000, the company installing it should at least know the basics of the rebate relating to it, or do you think I'm asking too much? I'll be posting the typed estimate when I get it, if it's even worth considering.
Yes I agree with you!
It's pathetic - both not knowing you need 96% to qualify and not giving more details.

That's not the only problem - you can't assess in 5 minutes!
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Old 06-23-2020, 06:43 PM   #65
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Buying the right equipment.....very important.
Finding the right company to install....priceless.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:14 PM   #66
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


I finally got my family's usual HVAC company to get me a proper estimate, and decided pull the trigger. I got a York TM9Y080B12MP11. The install was done today. Hallelujah! I've got air conditioning again.


However, they forgot to include the condensate pump and so right now I have a large plastic tube that outlets to the drain in the middle of the furnace room. I admit I know nothing about HVAC, but how is that ever considered safe and not a tripping hazard?


Anyways, they'll have to come back to install that. But for now, I have working A/C, a furnace for the winter of 2020 and one more thing checked off on my requirements list for the Enbridge Home Energy Rebate program.


Are there any simple tests I should perform, other than checking the A/C is working to make sure the furnace install is good?
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:26 AM   #67
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Quote:
York TM9Y080B12MP11.
If your 80% 100k was oversized which contractors told you it was, that furnace is oversized too - basically same btu output. mentioned that before. Too late now.


Hopefully it's set up with a 2-stage thermostat so it gets kept on low fire.

Hopefully they gave you a media filter because 16x25x1 pleated is too restrictive for that furnace when it's running on high fire. It's okay for up to 800-900 cfm - 60k furnace, 2 to 2.5 ton a/c.

If you have a smaller a/c than 2.5 to 3 ton, blower speed will need to be reduced from factory or you'll have poor dehumidification. Hopefully they did that too but it's very unlikely.
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I am not in the business of any trade I give advice on. I have non-professional hvac experience + good knowledge of theory. Attempt repairs at your own risk. Never jump out safeties - especially pressure switches - on a furnace for testing with fuel supply on; use a meter. Do not troubleshoot with live line voltage present unless there's no alternative.

Last edited by user_12345a; 07-17-2020 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 07-17-2020, 09:14 AM   #68
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


The air conditioner is a York H1ZD024S06A. Any idea how many tons it is? I couldn't find that info. using Google. I will ask them about the blower speed.


The energy auditor I used for the rebate program told me an 80K was necessary because the house had basically no insulation. He said the test results suggested anything smaller would only work if I did a lot insulating. Right now, I'm only prepared to do the attic and/or basement walls to start.



Give me a filter? Businesspeople in Toronto don't give you anything. You pay through the nose for it. That bein said, I remember what was said upthread and started looking to buy a new filter at a local store.
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Old 07-17-2020, 09:35 AM   #69
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


That's a 2 ton a/c.

Did they do any commissioning? - like running the furnace and checking gas pressures, temperature rise?

Did they do it as a 2-pipe, taking combustion air from outside?

With respect to the filter, any 16x25 pleated will have the same issue. MERV 6-7, not as bad.

You may have to use washable hogs air in the dead of winter to not stress the furnace when it's running on high fire.
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I am not in the business of any trade I give advice on. I have non-professional hvac experience + good knowledge of theory. Attempt repairs at your own risk. Never jump out safeties - especially pressure switches - on a furnace for testing with fuel supply on; use a meter. Do not troubleshoot with live line voltage present unless there's no alternative.
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Old 07-17-2020, 11:14 AM   #70
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


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Originally Posted by user_12345a View Post
That's a 2 ton a/c.

Did they do any commissioning? - like running the furnace and checking gas pressures, temperature rise?

Did they do it as a 2-pipe, taking combustion air from outside?

With respect to the filter, any 16x25 pleated will have the same issue. MERV 6-7, not as bad.

You may have to use washable hogs air in the dead of winter to not stress the furnace when it's running on high fire.

There is an air intake pipe coming out of the furnace. Does that mean they did not setup a 2-pipe system?


When you say 2-stage thermostat, are you talking about something in the furnace itself or the thermostat on my wall?
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:25 PM   #71
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


2-stage thermostat - the thermostat itself and there's a second stage terminal wired to the furnace control board.

2-pipe -> combustion air pipe leading outside, you should have an intake and exhaust terminating outside.

It's technically acceptable to install with a single stage stat and combustion air from inside but not as good.

Maybe post pics of the install and exterior pipe terminations.

You can tell if 2-stage stat was used and wired but opening the furnace and seeing if W2 was connected.

Blower speeds are easy to check too.

Reality is, you shouldn't have to worry about this stuff but some residential contractors cut corners everywhere and do the minimum to get the furnace running.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:07 PM   #72
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Some photos. I don't know if I covered the right areas, but it's a start.


Help me choose a new furnace-image00010.jpg






Help me choose a new furnace-image00011.jpg






Help me choose a new furnace-image00012.jpg






Help me choose a new furnace-image00013.jpg





There's air leaking out of the seam here:
Help me choose a new furnace-dscn3165.jpg





and here
Help me choose a new furnace-dscn3167.jpg
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:14 PM   #73
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


There are also small leaks here:


Help me choose a new furnace-image00005.jpg




Here:
Help me choose a new furnace-image00007.jpg






and Here:
Help me choose a new furnace-image00008.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Help me choose a new furnace-image00006.jpg   Help me choose a new furnace-image00009.jpg  
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:42 PM   #74
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


Doesn't look bad but they did do things to minimize work - the short flex gas line run instead of metal, the combustion air from inside.



You have to stop using that style of filter in the winter, as it will slowly kill your furnace when it's on high fire.

For a/c, a basic pleated is fine (2 ton only needing 700 to 900 cfm), never the allergen. Never 3m - home depot sells a pack of 3 merv 6 for $15.

Allergen filters are bad because they plug up and get extremely restrictive very quickly yet still look relatively clean. The holes are very small.

For heating, you can't use any pleated filter in that slot. You can buy a blue washable for $10 to $15 which filters better than fiberglass and isn't as restrictive as the pleated filters.

80k furnace ideally needs 1200++ cfm. Even if you get that with pleated, keep in mind the high duct pressure kills new ecm blower motors.

They should have included a media filter in the quote, would have added <$300 to the job.

It's very unlikely that they checked blower speeds and set it up so the staging is t-stat controlled.

The fan speed is very likely set too high for the a/c you have - factory is maximum.

Bare bones installation, minimum to get the furnace running.
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Last edited by user_12345a; 07-22-2020 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:05 PM   #75
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Re: Help me choose a new furnace


That's what I figured. A new filter is on my To DO list, just haven't gotten to it yet. Too many projects.

The air conditioning feels different than with my older Coleman mentioned upthread. It feels like the air is barely blowing out. The places feels cool, maybe not as dry, it's hard to tell when I haven't had the old one on for months.

Can I check the blower speed myself?

Any way to tell if the staging is thermostat controlled myself?


Are those leaks normal-ish? I didn't have leaks like that (except the small screw-sized holes) with the last furnace.
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