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Old 08-10-2020, 05:22 PM   #1
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Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Coleman Presidential III standing pilot M-Home Furnace #7956-A396 controlled w/two-wire heat only t-stat. System is both heat and AC.
Serial # 018773889

Heat function normal with FAN to Auto, Heat/Cool to Heat.
Move rocker to Cool, Cooling switches over normally and works well, but won't shut OFF (no auto cycles). Move rocker back to Heat, heat works normally again.

Tap on relay, No help. Reversing relay contacts for cooling have excessive carbon build-up, yepper?

What does the sequencer do?
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Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?-rocker-switches-control-box-124-sammy.jpg  
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:25 PM   #2
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


It's been a long time since I worked on one of those. The furnace has an add on blower motor and control package that is used when a/c is installed. I've attached the furnace diagram, 2 wire control diagram (you have) and the 4 wire control diagram. Personally I would convert it to the 4 wire model with a new thermostat. I remember thinking who thought this **** up.


Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?-p1.png


Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?-p2.png


Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?-p3.png
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:45 PM   #3
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


I should add that when your rocker switch is in the cooling position the heat sequencer is energized when R to W are made in the stat. This shuts off the cooling and fan. When R to W in the stat is open (call for cooling) the sequencer is in the as shown position on the drawing. The fan operation is determined by the continuous fan switch position.



Good luck with it.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:02 PM   #4
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 57TinkerMan View Post
It's been a long time since I worked on one of those. The furnace has an add on blower motor and control package that is used when a/c is installed. I've attached the furnace diagram, 2 wire control diagram (you have) and the 4 wire control diagram. Personally I would convert it to the 4 wire model with a new thermostat. I remember thinking who thought this **** up.


Attachment 610809


Attachment 610811


Attachment 610813
Lol ("who thought this **** up). That sums up how I felt after learning why the new 4-wire stat I installed didn't work on the first one I encountered several years ago (2-wire unit).
Thx much for those attachments. My customer would never go for the conversion to 4-wire, but great to have hard copy legible prints.

If I'm correct in calling the relay in the control box the "reversing relay", what does the sequencer do? Ok, I just read your second reply and understand, but isn't the FAN switch supposed to always be on AUTO, or have I misunderstood your following statement... "The fan operation is determined by the continuous fan switch position."
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:07 PM   #5
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Must have crossed time lines. Sequencer answer in my previous post. The rocker switch is the reversing device, the relay is just a plain old fan relay.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:22 PM   #6
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


It the fan switch is in the continuous position it will run 24/7. If it is in the auto position it will go on and off via the sequencer and a call for cooling.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:23 PM   #7
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 57TinkerMan View Post
Must have crossed time lines. Sequencer answer in my previous post. The rocker switch is the reversing device, the relay is just a plain old fan relay.
Just read your third post: Yeah, that's what I was saying... that the FAN switch should be in AUTO full time. Or do I still have this wrong? I've been assuming all along the FAN should be Auto or otherwise Cont would be 24/7 operation, which is not good.

So it's the heat/cool rocker that's my problem, per my first post symptoms? If that's correct, possibly even a bad connection on that rocker?
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Old 08-10-2020, 08:00 PM   #8
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Yes, leave fan in auto position. Sounds like your heat/cool rocker is ok if heat and cooling work. I would check the sequencer as follows:



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Old 08-10-2020, 08:06 PM   #9
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by justplumducky View Post
Just read your third post: Yeah, that's what I was saying... that the FAN switch should be in AUTO full time. Or do I still have this wrong? I've been assuming all along the FAN should be Auto or otherwise Cont would be 24/7 operation, which is not good.

So it's the heat/cool rocker that's my problem, per my first post symptoms? If that's correct, possibly even a bad connection on that rocker?
If the heat/cool rocker is switching from heat to cool and back to heat successfully (cooling only doesn't shut off when in Cool mode) then that could or would point to the relay, not necessarily the heat/cool rocker, correct?
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Old 08-10-2020, 08:09 PM   #10
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by justplumducky View Post
If the heat/cool rocker is switching from heat to cool and back to heat successfully (cooling only doesn't shut off when in Cool mode) then that could or would point to the relay, not necessarily the heat/cool rocker, correct?
Okay, just read your last post about the sequencer, which is what you were explaining in a previous post. Making a mess of this coversation me thinks, sorry.
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Old 08-10-2020, 08:12 PM   #11
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Yes, the sequencer (relay) is suspect, see previous post. Just think, you can control the cooling cycle rate by adjusting the heat anticipator in the crappy stat. The sequencer acts as an anti short cycle device too.
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Old 08-10-2020, 08:18 PM   #12
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


This is definitely a one off set up. I'm sure lots o butt scratching, mumbling and drooling has occurred if front of these things. The biggest problem is no one ever leaves the blower kit diagram there.
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Old 08-10-2020, 09:08 PM   #13
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Just a reminder to get the proper switch action for the replacement sequencer or time delay relay.



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Old 08-11-2020, 04:59 PM   #14
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Re: Coleman Presidential III Reversing Relay Problem?


Replaced the heat sequencer with the same part no., and all is well again. Can't thank you enough 57TinkerMan for all your above & beyond replies.
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