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Old 08-17-2020, 09:59 PM   #1
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410A fixed orifice


Until this unit I have never had to deal with that fixed orifice on a 410A. The original call was no cool, owner says that they heard a large whining sound and then Bang Bang on the roof. So over the phone I diagnose blower motor when I get there everything fires up. Within 30 seconds it shuts down. I go through all of the electrical just to make sure that it's not an electrical issue including megohm the Copland scroll compressor. At which point I go to my truck for my gauges. Unit starts with an equalize pressure of 230 when's the unit is running suction line dropped to 130 lb, as the liquid line rises and rises and rises. Until it shuts off at 600 PSIG. THE suction line does not alter. My diagnostic restriction. first attempt at fixing it was to shoot nitrogen through the suction line hoping to dislodge. Then pull a vacuum overnight when I got there next day it was reading 200 microns. I reloaded The refrigerant and it did the exact same thing. So I'm going to take it apart next and see if it's at that orifice, but once I open the unit do I need to change both the orifice and the filter? And most importantly if you see what I missed please send it. Open to all suggestion
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Old 08-17-2020, 10:28 PM   #2
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


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I reloaded The refrigerant and it did the exact same thing. So I'm going to take it apart next and see if it's at that orifice.

Doesn't sound like a restriction to me. More of an overcharge issue.

Did you weigh the charge in? Check superheat? Anytime you open the system you should change out the filter drier. It's possible you have an airflow issue and someone overcharged the system in an attempt to increase suction pressure. Measure TESP and look at the blower performance chart for the unit to get your approximate CFM.
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Old 08-17-2020, 10:33 PM   #3
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


No need to change the orifice. It’s a very basic cleanable part.
Drier should be changed when the systems open.
Sounds more like a charge issue then a blockage.
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Old 08-17-2020, 10:43 PM   #4
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


If there was a major restriction, wouldn't there be a noticeable temp drop across it downstream of the gauge port?
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Old 08-17-2020, 11:03 PM   #5
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


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If there was a major restriction, wouldn't there be a noticeable temp drop across it downstream of the gauge port?



Yes, definitely.



If the charge is correct, I would think that a major restriction anywhere in the line set side of things, either coil, suction or liquid line would result in a lower suction pressure not increased head pressure. Kind of a pump down situation.
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Old 08-18-2020, 04:16 AM   #6
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Suction pressure dropped to 130 where it should be under the conditions in Hanford California. Time from start to 600 PSIG and shut down, 25 to 30 seconds. Goodman package unit, 4 ft 9 in from compressor to orifice. I'm thinking it has to be restricted at filter drier or Orifice.

I thought the same thing about the charge. Over charged, that's why I recovered the refrigerant that was loaded and pulled a vacuum overnight. Next day weighed in through the liquid line unit off 4lbs 10 oz of fresh 410A. Unit calls for 6.8 lbs. I climbed down off the roof and went to eat. Came back to finish loading the unit through the suction line, right wrong as soon as I started up the unit. 600 PSIG not even time to get back to the scale.
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Old 08-18-2020, 05:59 AM   #7
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


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Suction pressure dropped to 130 where it should be under the conditions in Hanford California. Time from start to 600 PSIG and shut down, 25 to 30 seconds. Goodman package unit, 4 ft 9 in from compressor to orifice. I'm thinking it has to be restricted at filter drier or Orifice.

I thought the same thing about the charge. Over charged, that's why I recovered the refrigerant that was loaded and pulled a vacuum overnight. Next day weighed in through the liquid line unit off 4lbs 10 oz of fresh 410A. Unit calls for 6.8 lbs. I climbed down off the roof and went to eat. Came back to finish loading the unit through the suction line, right wrong as soon as I started up the unit. 600 PSIG not even time to get back to the scale.

And what did the vapor line do?


Was your manifold connected to the liquid line, or the hot gas line of the compressor?


Was the condenser fan spinning the correct direction. Did you have to remove the condenser panel to connect your manifold. If so, did you have the panel back on, or at least blocking the air so it had to be pulled through the condenser coil.
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Old 08-18-2020, 10:17 AM   #8
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


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Originally Posted by Rlejunior View Post
I'm thinking it has to be restricted at filter drier or Orifice.

A restriction in the filter drier and/or orifice should not result in high head pressure. "beenthere" asked if you had connected your high side gauge to the hot gas line, if so, your condenser coil comes into play and if there were a restriction in it you could see pressures like you are experiencing.

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Old 08-27-2020, 11:35 AM   #9
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


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And what did the vapor line do?


Was your manifold connected to the liquid line, or the hot gas line of the compressor?


Was the condenser fan spinning the correct direction. Did you have to remove the condenser panel to connect your manifold. If so, did you have the panel back on, or at least blocking the air so it had to be pulled through the condenser coil.
:

Ok so it took a while for the shame and embarrassment to dissipate enough to fess up.

CONDENSER FAN DID NOT, WAS NOT, NOR DO i THINK IT EVER STARTED. i ALSO FAILED TO TAKE NOTE OF MICRO CHANEL COIL.

Ooooohh the shame.......... I will go on record as saying all of you,

57TinkerMan, beenthere, user_12345a, roughneck, Will never be doubted again by this old hack. you guy's where right.....With all respect thank you.

For the whole story hit me up....
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:54 AM   #10
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Re: 410A fixed orifice


I've done worse but not lately... only because I'm retired and doing virtually nothing in the trade.

Takes me back to the first time I ever attempted to do refrigeration work. The old belt drive unit was knocking pretty loudly so I figured it was low on oil. I removed what looked like a good place to pour oil into the crankcase. Trouble was I didn't pump it down! It really did need oil (and F-12) after I managed to get the plug back in to at least save some of it. The rest of it was all over the upper half of my body.
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