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Old 11-01-2016, 12:18 PM   #1
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Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Region: Tampa Bay area (central west coast) of Florida. Hot summers with afternoon rains almost daily. 18' x 9' rectangular outdoor patio with fencing.

Half way through a first time patio paver project and next step is base (250) sand. Fortunately, my brother has some experience with paver installation and what it entails. He has helped me to this point (concrete slab removal w/rebar and 6" depth old dirt removal) however, is too busy in next couple weeks so, I'm on my own from here. I am aware that as in all projects prepwork is key and proper positive drainage is a must.

When I spoke to a local privately owned landscaping supply store they told me in our area most people usually install pavers right on top of 4 inches of compacted 250 base sand and then lay pavers and use silica sand for the joints. I've watched videos where others use 3 inches of compacted base sand and then 1 inch of finer top sand (non compacted) to lay the pavers on. Suggestions please.

The local supply store I metioned above has a very limited selection for colors and sizes of 2" depth pavers. However will deliver in palettes. The quality of their pavers looks good yet, I'm not knowledgeable enough to descern a differnce between the ones sold at big box stores that come in more choices and we are also considering. Opinions please.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:20 PM   #2
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


See my response in your duplicate query.

Have the moderator combine them.


ED
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:41 PM   #3
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Quote:
Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
See my response in your duplicate query. Have the moderator combine them.
ED
Not sure how that happened. Here's your response:

"The pavers at the "box' stores are usually as good a quality as the ones at the landscapers. You might have a supplier locally that just sells pavers, brick, and supplies, they usually have the best deals.

As for base many use a ratio of 3 to 1 , as base.
3 inches of compacted crushed gravel, and 1 inch of sand, then the pavers, with the silica swept into the cracks, and compacted again. Careful compacting the pavers they can crack if packed too hard."


Thanks. As far as I know 250 sand is the same crushed gravel you mentioned. Is the top sand also silica sand that's used to fill the joints or is it something else?

Last edited by Fishbone90; 11-01-2016 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:25 PM   #4
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Your landscaping guy is right, 4 inches of compacted sand, and an inch of uncompacted as a setting bed, don't usually use gravel base down here.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:14 PM   #5
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


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Originally Posted by Canarywood1 View Post
Your landscaping guy is right, 4 inches of compacted sand, and an inch of uncompacted as a setting bed, don't usually use gravel base down here.
The landscape guy told me that 250 sand is a mix of crushed shell and sand.

For a total of 7 inch depth? I recently read an internet article that stated: "do not compact top layer of sand" as the loose sand will soon settle and hold pavers in place." Looks like you are saying the same thing. Please recommend the appropriate top sand to put between the base and pavers.

Last edited by Fishbone90; 11-01-2016 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:35 PM   #6
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


The gravel allows the bed to drain better, but it is not mandatory.

The top inch should be clear ( no lumps, stones, shells, etc) sand , so as to have a softer bedding to place the pavers in.


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Old 11-02-2016, 09:59 AM   #7
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


A sharp/ irregular sand, the same one you use for the setting bed, or polymeric sand which is supposed to keep weeds at bay, although the school of thought is split about 50/50.
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:02 AM   #8
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Thanks for the replies and sorry for my delayed reply.

I live in a condo and for the past few days I've had a few neighbors stop by and ask about this patio project. One guy who has been there for 30 years (condos built in 1985) said the HOA collectively sued the builder because of poor drainage issues. In many areas the common areas of landscape is elevated higher than the indoor and outdoor patios. A lady that just moved in a month ago and lives fairly close is suing the previous owner for not disclosing flooding. My place hasn't had any flooding issues however, there was a cement slab and pea gravel in our outdoor patio area prior.

I spoke to a very knowledgeable local landscaper, told him the situation I mentioned above and asked him how I should proceed. He said that due to the possibility of the common areas outside the patio fence I could either use the 250 base sand without a top layer (crushed cement) or install corrugated pipes under patio area and use crushed gravel and limestone top layer. He said if I were to use 250 base with a crushed cement top layer ..the top layer would harden and not allow drainage between the pavers. I have opted to use 4" base 250 sand and lay the pavers on top with silica sand between pavers. Should I compact or not compact the top one inch of the 250 sand?

Here is a link to the 250 sand info, instructions and the place of purchase: http://www.bigearthsupply.com/landsc...ling-sand.html

Last edited by Fishbone90; 11-05-2016 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:17 AM   #9
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


I always try to use base material, class I rock for final level and dip fill. Then 1/2" of damp sand compacted only with a float as I move along using this method:

I lay some 1/2 x 1/2 x 2' strips in front of me pointed away from me, add the sand smooth out and lightly tamp the damp sand, remove the wood strips, tamp again. The I lay up course until I need to repeat the process.

I never walk, crawl or kneel on the sand layer.
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:18 AM   #10
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Top 1 inch is NOT compacted, it's your setting bed, after pavers are in place, and silica sand is spread THEN use a plate compactor.
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Old 11-06-2016, 07:40 AM   #11
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


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Originally Posted by Canarywood1 View Post
Top 1 inch is NOT compacted, it's your setting bed, after pavers are in place, and silica sand is spread THEN use a plate compactor.
Seems like there's a different method for each part of the country and climate. Canarywood1.. I live just north of you in Bradenton. I am using 1" pvc to level top layer of 250 and per your suggestion I will not compact it. I've watched videos and some say to stay away from polymeric sand and to use natural sand and just replinish it annually. Suggestions?
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:01 AM   #12
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Should I use this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/48-lb-Lev...8000/100343385
or similar for top 1" and as joint filler?

I purchased these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Pavestone...5569/204503088
as edging to keep the base sand in and lay the lowest point (under fence) of the pavers on. I plan to stack and cement them together and bury down enough as to not impede water runoff.

Last edited by Fishbone90; 11-06-2016 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:42 PM   #13
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbone90 View Post
Seems like there's a different method for each part of the country and climate. Canarywood1.. I live just north of you in Bradenton. I am using 1" pvc to level top layer of 250 and per your suggestion I will not compact it. I've watched videos and some say to stay away from polymeric sand and to use natural sand and just replinish it annually. Suggestions?

The 1 inch pvc is fine for your setting bed, and as i said in previous post, some like polymeric sand and others like natural sand, flip a coin.
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:46 PM   #14
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbone90 View Post
Should I use this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/48-lb-Lev...8000/100343385
or similar for top 1" and as joint filler?

I purchased these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Pavestone...5569/204503088
as edging to keep the base sand in and lay the lowest point (under fence) of the pavers on. I plan to stack and cement them together and bury down enough as to not impede water runoff.
that's okay if you just have a small place your using the pavers, but if it's a large area your better off using bulk sand, and it will be a lot cheaper.


Don't know why your using those edgers, should be using an edging like this.

https://www.olyola.com/paver-edging/...FcRZhgodQrEHuQ
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:17 PM   #15
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Re: Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s


Quote:
Originally Posted by Canarywood1 View Post
that's okay if you just have a small place your using the pavers, but if it's a large area your better off using bulk sand, and it will be a lot cheaper. Don't know why your using those edgers, should be using an edging like this.

https://www.olyola.com/paver-edging/...FcRZhgodQrEHuQ
Do you know a place in Sarasota or Bradenton I can purchase bulk sand.. Big Earth doesn't sell it.

As you can probably tell I don't have a real good handle on what I'm doing..Lol. I thought about PVC retainers but at this point I can't find that size locally, don't want to wait for a delivery and I like the look and longevity of what I purchased. I hope to achieve something similar (except, rectagular) to the attached pic.
Attached Thumbnails
Patio Paver Quality and Sand ?'s-circulkar-raised-patio-pavers.jpg  

Last edited by Fishbone90; 11-06-2016 at 05:20 PM.
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