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Old 04-23-2018, 03:02 PM   #1
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Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Hi this is my first post! I've started to try and plan the removal of a wall on the main floor of my 1 story + basement 1930s Seattle home. I'm trying to figure out if it is load bearing. The wall is parallel to the ceiling joists and is about 10 inches away from the beam that supports the roof. The thing that confuses me is in the attic there are these newish 2x12s added to reinforce the ceiling joists. They only installed them on the side of the house that doesn't have the wall and everything else about this part of the house is symmetric (other than the wall we want removed). I've linked a picture of my attic. They put a big cutout in one of the 2x12's as shown in the picture, so not sure how much reinforcing it's actually doing. Anyone know what these 2x12's are used for? Maybe just to reinforce the ceiling for putting heavy storage in the attic?
Thanks!

Here's the link to the picture:
ibb.co/j8Hg3c

Last edited by mistersink; 04-23-2018 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:05 PM   #2
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Some additional info:
There is also no wall directly below it in the basement (basement has been finished and no way to see what's behind the basement walls or what the floor structure looks like). This wall also has evidence of perhaps not being original since there's a furnace intake vent in the wall right next to a rectangular patch job on the hardwood floor where I'm guessing the original furnace intake grate was.
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:02 PM   #3
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Quote:
There is also no wall directly below it in the basement
That lack of a wall doesn't tell us much. An I Beam in the ceiling would tell us a lot more.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:43 PM   #4
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


You need to have someone (a contractor or carpenter) to look at it and explain to you what you can do. That one picture is hard to tell, it's just attic. You need to know where and what is holding up the house, then you can have better idea what you like to do. Sometimes you need to punch a hole in drywall to see what's behind. I wouldn't be able to help much with limited information/photos you provided. Be aware that you might even need a permit, sorry to bring it up.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:18 PM   #5
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Drywall backing, instead of a 2x6 on flat they put blocks every so often to attach the ceiling drywall near the wall. We do this when adding a wall in the basement. ?????????
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:23 AM   #6
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


when taking the picture I was standing on the load bearing wall that the ceiling joists lead up to. all ceiling joists are 2x4 and the entire ceiling floor is plywood that the drywall screws into. The only real beams in the ceiling are 2x6 beams used to support the roof through the vertical posts that you see. there is a wall in the basement, but it doesn't align with this wall, so I doubt load is going through it to ground. These new 2x12 joist supporters are also installed in another part of the house (again not supporting anything but regular joists), which also makes me think they were just put in later to strengthen the ceiling for storage. any other thoughts or info I could provide that would help solve this mystery?
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:04 AM   #7
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Quote:
there is a wall in the basement, but it doesn't align with this wall, so I doubt load is going through it to ground.
I still didn't see an answer to post #3. Is there an I Beam under the wall?
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:11 AM   #8
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


I will have to cut out some drywall in the basement to determine if there is a beam under the wall. Even if there were a beam under the wall, wouldn't the beam just be to support the load of the main floor and i suppose the weight of the wall itself? wouldn't the attic be enough to show that there is no load going into the wall from above? The way I look at it is the roof load on the perlin is going through the vertical posts into a beam that is supported on either end by a load bearing wall. The wall I want to remove runs parallel to and is located 10 inches from this beam, so the only path from the beam to the wall is through the plywood, which wouldn't be very efficient. Am I missing some fundamentals here?
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:12 AM   #9
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


I finally was able to open the photo. that is not a bearing wall the supports from the roof are landing o a 3 ply for support.
The 2x4 joists are over spanned and it looks like they have taken sag out with the 2x12s I would not store anything but insulation up there.
Built with out rafter ties and ventilation would be tricky.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:13 AM   #10
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Quote:
Originally Posted by mistersink View Post
I will have to cut out some drywall in the basement to determine if there is a beam under the wall. Even if there were a beam under the wall, wouldn't the beam just be to support the load of the main floor and i suppose the weight of the wall itself? wouldn't the attic be enough to show that there is no load going into the wall from above? The way I look at it is the roof load on the perlin is going through the vertical posts into a beam that is supported on either end by a load bearing wall. The wall I want to remove runs parallel to and is located 10 inches from this beam, so the only path from the beam to the wall is through the plywood, which wouldn't be very efficient. Am I missing some fundamentals here?
You have it right.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:49 AM   #11
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Ok, so not enough original 2x4 joists, so they added some additional support. I'm guessing that if I want to remove the wall that it would be a good Idea to add some additional joist support on that side of the house to prevent sagging, but overall removing the wall wouldn't be a structural concern. So you agree I wouldn't have to investigate the structure behind the drywall in the basement?

By the way, I will have a contractor or two look at this (when I can find one that will return my call at this time of year), but I wanted to see what this community thought because the first contractor I had look at this wasn't confident enough to make this call. I'm trying to avoid paying for an engineer come out if I can get some consensus that it's not load bearing.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:06 PM   #12
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Quote:
Originally Posted by mistersink View Post
Ok, so not enough original 2x4 joists, so they added some additional support. I'm guessing that if I want to remove the wall that it would be a good Idea to add some additional joist support on that side of the house to prevent sagging, but overall removing the wall wouldn't be a structural concern. So you agree I wouldn't have to investigate the structure behind the drywall in the basement?

By the way, I will have a contractor or two look at this (when I can find one that will return my call at this time of year), but I wanted to see what this community thought because the first contractor I had look at this wasn't confident enough to make this call. I'm trying to avoid paying for an engineer come out if I can get some consensus that it's not load bearing.
From above you can see all of the 2x6 that is the drywall backing with nothing on it, so a beam in the basement would be for the floor only and the weight of that wall.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:21 PM   #13
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Photos, photos... my friend. Do you have a website that you could upload photos (imgur.com)? That way we can go to that website (instead of posting too many in this forum). This way we can better help.

What are the beams that is supporting the floors? Wood? Metal I-beam?
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:30 PM   #14
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


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Originally Posted by CNT View Post
Photos, photos... my friend. Do you have a website that you could upload photos (imgur.com)? That way we can go to that website (instead of posting too many in this forum). This way we can better help.

What are the beams that is supporting the floors? Wood? Metal I-beam?
copy and paste in address bar
ibb.co/j8Hg3c
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:42 PM   #15
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Re: Wall Removal - Mysterious ceiling Joist reinforcement


Quote:
copy and paste in address bar
ibb.co/j8Hg3c
I did that (this is how I saw your attic). Is that all? I was saying post MORE photos, like what kind of beams in the basement, the wall you want to tear down, etc.
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