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Old 04-28-2020, 06:12 AM   #31
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


I think the key is that she doesn't care about that closet. On mine, I kept the closet but had to reduce it a little. The closet goes out onto a sloped stairway ceiling. On the first floor, I have a full wall at the stairs rather than the rail/spindles, as I needed the wall space. My tv is actually hung on that wall.
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:27 AM   #32
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


Alright, husband caught up enough at work to be able to get back to house projects.

Haven't cut the landing ceiling drywall at the bottom of the stairs yet, but we'd decided to replace the upstairs hallway flooring and found this at the top of the stairs:

(looking to the left side of the stairwell - with the wall mounted handrail)
Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-20200606_152241.jpg

(looking to the right side of the stairwell)
Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-20200606_141352.jpg

So we do indeed have a double joist, but it's not right up against the stairway wall like it was supposed/assumed earlier in the thread.

Am I correct that it's not a big deal for our plans, aka that double joist is carrying the load from the stairwell opening, even if it's offset by the 3" from the single joist there?

OR do we need to try to get a second joist on the single joist there to carry the new raised closet floor at the bottom? (above the new landing)

The single joist at the top of the stairs is a bit "wobbly", like it doesn't have a load on it to pin it down (not that it connects to anything on the upside end atm o.o); we're going to reinforce it with a "sistered" 2x6 or 2x10 length stuck as far under the bedroom wall as we can reach and out to where the other joist ends are supported.

Also, I'd prefer to secure the top of my 4x4 post to the single joist there and the bottom to a joist in the basement - I don't want the post falling over if the grandkids swing on it (the old standard 40" or whatever stair post had pulled its screws out of the basement joists from the boys doing that.)
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:31 AM   #33
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
Alright, husband caught up enough at work to be able to get back to house projects.

Haven't cut the landing ceiling drywall at the bottom of the stairs yet, but we'd decided to replace the upstairs hallway flooring and found this at the top of the stairs:

(looking to the left side of the stairwell - with the wall mounted handrail)
Attachment 602221

(looking to the right side of the stairwell)
Attachment 602223

So we do indeed have a double joist, but it's not right up against the stairway wall like it was supposed/assumed earlier in the thread.

Am I correct that it's not a big deal for our plans, aka that double joist is carrying the load from the stairwell opening, even if it's offset by the 3" from the single joist there?

OR do we need to try to get a second joist on the single joist there to carry the new raised closet floor at the bottom? (above the new landing)

The single joist at the top of the stairs is a bit "wobbly", like it doesn't have a load on it to pin it down (not that it connects to anything on the upside end atm o.o); we're going to reinforce it with a "sistered" 2x6 or 2x10 length stuck as far under the bedroom wall as we can reach and out to where the other joist ends are supported.

Also, I'd prefer to secure the top of my 4x4 post to the single joist there and the bottom to a joist in the basement - I don't want the post falling over if the grandkids swing on it (the old standard 40" or whatever stair post had pulled its screws out of the basement joists from the boys doing that.)
The original plan was for a wider stair case and they changed it, mid stream to make the bedroom bigger.
How much more headroom do you need under closet, Or do you know yet?
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:45 AM   #34
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


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The original plan was for a wider stair case and they changed it, mid stream to make the bedroom bigger.
How much more headroom do you need under closet, Or do you know yet?
I'm short 29" to get to an 8 foot ceiling over the highest step there (but I think you said I could do 80" off the tread if I had to?)

I can take the ceiling out to the double joist at the landing (bottom of the stairs) if I need to/if it makes it easier.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:54 AM   #35
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


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I'm short 29" to get to an 8 foot ceiling over the highest step there (but I think you said I could do 80" off the tread if I had to?)

I can take the ceiling out to the double joist at the landing (bottom of the stairs) if I need to/if it makes it easier.
Lay a straight edge up the stairs so it is touching the noses and measure from that corner of the ceiling straight down to the bottom of the straight edge.

That needs to be eighty inches.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:20 PM   #36
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


It's short 13" so I've gotta raise it.

I figured I'd raise it to 96" so it'd clear the double joist you figured was on the crossing wall.

That said, I was thinking about the post I want to put in, if I use lags bolts on the post, then I should be able to rest a double joist on top of the post to connect into the far wall - basically turning that post into a joist support that'll be connected from the left stair (handrail) wall, across to the right stair wall, and carried down to the basement.

I think the post is even long enough that I could raise the post up high enough to nail on a joist hanger to connect/stabilize the post to the wall at the base of the stairs as well. That way it would be completely stationary and work as a pretty solid structural member.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:45 PM   #37
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
It's short 13" so I've gotta raise it.

I figured I'd raise it to 96" so it'd clear the double joist you figured was on the crossing wall.

That said, I was thinking about the post I want to put in, if I use lags bolts on the post, then I should be able to rest a double joist on top of the post to connect into the far wall - basically turning that post into a joist support that'll be connected from the left stair (handrail) wall, across to the right stair wall, and carried down to the basement.

I think the post is even long enough that I could raise the post up high enough to nail on a joist hanger to connect/stabilize the post to the wall at the base of the stairs as well. That way it would be completely stationary and work as a pretty solid structural member.
We are near the same page if not on the same one.

I was thinking you could do the post like a deck post and notch it to fit behind the single joist under the wall. That would allow you to remove the ceiling floor above the landing. For now I would just remove the drywall so we don't have to guess at what you have.
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:10 PM   #38
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


Right.

I was going to put the post along side the joist - lag bolted through the single joist. I can move it over to notch it though I think.

Notching would carry the load down better than lag bolting?
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:18 PM   #39
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


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Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
Right.

I was going to put the post along side the joist - lag bolted through the single joist. I can move it over to notch it though I think.

Notching would carry the load down better than lag bolting?
I was thinking, if it was notched and you put it up between the single and the double you could bolt them all together

I suspect the header for the closet was there first so the single likely stops there and then you could remove the closet floor.

You might have to move the closet wall out into the room 3, 4 inches, just that short piece.
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:59 PM   #40
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


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I was thinking, if it was notched and you put it up between the single and the double you could bolt them all together

I suspect the header for the closet was there first so the single likely stops there and then you could remove the closet floor.

You might have to move the closet wall out into the room 3, 4 inches, just that short piece.
Ah yeah, it'd certainly be more secure if we tied the single joist, double joist, and the post together.

Move the closet wall? Ya lost me there LOL

Even if we suspect they made the stairs narrower mid-stride (aka the double joist not being right under the wall) the closet's/bedroom's wall is in-line with the right stair wall (1st floor and 2nd floor) - which means closet/bedroom wall would be set on top of the single joist there...

Bah! Wait, never mind. You're right, let me get that drywall cut off and figure it out then. Never know what we're gonna find given the way this place is built
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Old 06-09-2020, 07:45 PM   #41
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


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Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
Ah yeah, it'd certainly be more secure if we tied the single joist, double joist, and the post together.

Move the closet wall? Ya lost me there LOL

Even if we suspect they made the stairs narrower mid-stride (aka the double joist not being right under the wall) the closet's/bedroom's wall is in-line with the right stair wall (1st floor and 2nd floor) - which means closet/bedroom wall would be set on top of the single joist there...

Bah! Wait, never mind. You're right, let me get that drywall cut off and figure it out then. Never know what we're gonna find given the way this place is built
I had a house where that hole was 8" wider than the stairs, it was great for moving a king size mattress.
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Old 06-15-2020, 06:01 AM   #42
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


I nagged my husband into pulling down the drywall over the landing before he went to bed tonight. Here's what we found:

Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-20200614_191433.jpg Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-20200614_191403.jpg

This is the only place in the house that has joist hangers (even the outside second story deck doesn't have hangers) so I'm kinda thinking maybe they did this when they added the garage and dining room on in the mid-80s.

I'm guessing the exposed joist here (this is the interior side wall) is another inch or so out from that single joist at the top of the stairs.

Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-20200614_191416.jpg

My thought is to cut that single joist that's showing in pic 3 (it's on the cut edge of the ceiling in pics 1 and 2.) I was thinking to cut out more drywall to get my new post in under the double joist - presuming it goes all the way through. That'll put my entire column (and it's faux trim) under the existing ceiling so you can't see the top of it from upstairs. Plus I'm guessing that'll better support the ceiling being raised as well.

----

At least the wall (looking down the stairs) is normal - and as you figured @Nealtw - double joist across the stair opening, then 1/2 subfloor, then the bottom plate of the wall on top of that.

Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-20200614_191346.jpg

I was thinking to basically frame the new closet "floor" up kinda like a window - with jack studs on either side of the new "headers" higher up where the new "floor" of the closet will end up.

The interior sides of the upstairs closet wall is pretty easy to get a jack stud into, but I'm not sure what to do on the exterior sides.

The garage side has another joist just beyond the sheetrock, maybe a 2" gap between it and the fully exposed joist with the hanger. It looks like the crosswise double joist I need to cut & move up is resting on the top plate of the garage side wall. The buried second joist butts up to the crosswise double joist but has no joist hanger. I think it might be the original rim joist.

I'm thinking to see if I can pull out the double joist (if it was done with the addition there'll just be 30 toe nails to pull out argh) and then stick a "jack stud" kinda thing in the resulting gap. I might be able to pocket screw both sections of rim joist to the new jack stud if I pull a bit more drywall off.

I'm not sure what to do on the exterior wall (with the insulation though) The rim joist makes putting in a jack stud kind of structure a bit odd. I do not want to cut the rim joist so I'd have to either rip down my "jack studs" or put them in on the flat. Maybe tie the "flat stud" into a "header" once I'm above the 2nd story sub floor, then put in a second "header" where the new "floor" of the closet is going to be?
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Old 06-15-2020, 06:33 AM   #43
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
I nagged my husband into pulling down the drywall over the landing before he went to bed tonight. Here's what we found:



This is the only place in the house that has joist hangers (even the outside second story deck doesn't have hangers) so I'm kinda thinking maybe they did this when they added the garage and dining room on in the mid-80s.

I'm guessing the exposed joist here (this is the interior side wall) is another inch or so out from that single joist at the top of the stairs.



My thought is to cut that single joist that's showing in pic 3 (it's on the cut edge of the ceiling in pics 1 and 2.) I was thinking to cut out more drywall to get my new post in under the double joist - presuming it goes all the way through. That'll put my entire column (and it's faux trim) under the existing ceiling so you can't see the top of it from upstairs. Plus I'm guessing that'll better support the ceiling being raised as well.

----

At least the wall (looking down the stairs) is normal - and as you figured @Nealtw - double joist across the stair opening, then 1/2 subfloor, then the bottom plate of the wall on top of that.

Attachment 603043

I was thinking to basically frame the new closet "floor" up kinda like a window - with jack studs on either side of the new "headers" higher up where the new "floor" of the closet will end up.

The interior sides of the upstairs closet wall is pretty easy to get a jack stud into, but I'm not sure what to do on the exterior sides.

The garage side has another joist just beyond the sheetrock, maybe a 2" gap between it and the fully exposed joist with the hanger. It looks like the crosswise double joist I need to cut & move up is resting on the top plate of the garage side wall. The buried second joist butts up to the crosswise double joist but has no joist hanger. I think it might be the original rim joist.

I'm thinking to see if I can pull out the double joist (if it was done with the addition there'll just be 30 toe nails to pull out argh) and then stick a "jack stud" kinda thing in the resulting gap. I might be able to pocket screw both sections of rim joist to the new jack stud if I pull a bit more drywall off.

I'm not sure what to do on the exterior wall (with the insulation though) The rim joist makes putting in a jack stud kind of structure a bit odd. I do not want to cut the rim joist so I'd have to either rip down my "jack studs" or put them in on the flat. Maybe tie the "flat stud" into a "header" once I'm above the 2nd story sub floor, then put in a second "header" where the new "floor" of the closet is going to be?
I will give you this in steps.

I would start with removing drywall over to the double and install the post. Or maybe just put spacers between the joists and lag the single to the double in a few places in the length.
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Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-mys-7.png  
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Old 06-15-2020, 06:56 AM   #44
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


Find the needed height and just cut this wall. The new header want to go at least 1 1/2" into the garage wall with solid support below it.

The bedroom side can be long into the bedroom. It wants to be well over the double and can be cut to length later.

The wall with the closet door can be removed and rebuilt over the double joist.
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Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.-mys-8.png  
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:14 AM   #45
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Re: Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.


In the closet, remove drywall up to new floor height or a little more to allow subfloor to reach the studs


Cut the old floor sheet flush with the walls and the double joist.
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