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Old 05-01-2019, 08:35 PM   #1
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Notched studs


Had some plumbing work done to install a new water and drain line. 3 studs were deeply notched out for the pipe on a wall approx 12' wide. I don't know if it's load bearing.

Plumber said it should be fine - is it something I should be worried about? Photos for reference.

https://imgur.com/a/7pl8x3a
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:49 PM   #2
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Re: Notched studs


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Originally Posted by Bowler View Post
Had some plumbing work done to install a new water and drain line. 3 studs were deeply notched out for the pipe on a wall approx 12' wide. I don't know if it's load bearing.

Plumber said it should be fine - is it something I should be worried about? Photos for reference.

https://imgur.com/a/7pl8x3a
He should have had you re build out to 2x6 wall, I would build a flat 2x4 wall in front of that.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:57 PM   #3
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Re: Notched studs


You gotta love plumbers. Let me rephrase that because we have awesome plumbers on here, a "poser plumber." Wow, nothing like notching out the WHOLE damn middle of those 2x's. Sheesh. I've seen worse. A plumber in my area cut out a 2 foot section of a 2 x 10 to run some drain lines and then, get this, joined the two pieces he created with a 1 x 3. No one knew until the homeowners had issues with a sagging ceiling. Once they uncovered some drywall they found the disaster. Unbelievable.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:17 PM   #4
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Nealtw do you have a reference photo to illustrate? I'm not sure if I'm understanding the concept
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:18 PM   #5
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Would a stud shoe be helpful?
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:23 PM   #6
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Re: Notched studs


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Would a stud shoe be helpful?
Not if it is load bearing. Put a straight across there and check for lumps that will show up in the drywall.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:33 PM   #7
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Re: Notched studs


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I don't know if it's load bearing.
You better find out quick! Because if it was a bearing wall, it ain't bearing at it's capacity anymore.
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:34 AM   #8
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From what I can tell now it doesn't appear to be load bearing. With that in mind are the notches still something to be worried about?
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:48 AM   #9
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Re: Notched studs


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From what I can tell now it doesn't appear to be load bearing. With that in mind are the notches still something to be worried about?
What is above and below this wall? they all appear the same.
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:01 AM   #10
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Directly below is concrete slab, above is the second floor. The wall does not go up all the way through the second floor. On the other side of the wall there is kitchen cabinetry
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:11 AM   #11
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Re: Notched studs


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Directly below is concrete slab, above is the second floor. The wall does not go up all the way through the second floor. On the other side of the wall there is kitchen cabinetry
Do the floor joists land on this wall?


If you look down in the wall, are there any bolts holding it down?
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:26 AM   #12
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Re: Notched studs


...Is that a cement block wall behind the 90* at the end? IF so, and it's just a "face" wall, meaning the cinder block is the exterior wall, then maybe its okay since it's just a "pretty thing" and completely non-structural.

Though I gotta say, that wall isn't supporting anything but the sheetrock anymore... I believe building code says you can't notch out that many studs in a row (pretty sure you can only do two studs in a row.)
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:51 AM   #13
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Re: Notched studs


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...Is that a cement block wall behind the 90* at the end? IF so, and it's just a "face" wall, meaning the cinder block is the exterior wall, then maybe its okay since it's just a "pretty thing" and completely non-structural.

Though I gotta say, that wall isn't supporting anything but the sheetrock anymore... I believe building code says you can't notch out that many studs in a row (pretty sure you can only do two studs in a row.)
I don't know about consecutive studs, but there are definite guidelines for notching studs both for a load bearing wall and a non loadbearing wall.

That is too much for a non-load bearing wall even. I'd be concerned if you have cabinets hanging from it. I know of stud shoes,but am unsure if that completely solves this problem on so many cut so much when hanging cabinets.

I'm spitballing, but how about nailing a stud on flat in front of the wall nailed off to each stud shoring i up? not sure if this really solves the issue
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:59 PM   #14
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Re: Notched studs


I'd found this when I was researching for running cat6 and rg6 for my house (relevant to this thread portion highlighted):

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I've been poking around random corners of the internet all day and I found code and discussion that indicates the following:

Holes in bearing walls may not exceed 40% of the width of the stud. Holes in non-bearing walls cannot exceed 60% of the stud width. Edges of holes must be at least 5/8" from the edge of a stud. Romex has to be 1 1/4" back from the front of the stud (to protect from accidental screwing) or a 1/16" thick protective metal plate has to be used. You cannot have a hole and a notch, nor a hole and a horizontal cut/butt joint in the same "cross section" of a stud [basically, you want some continuous meat around the hole/notch.] Holes should be round, cut an octagon if you cannot go round.

*There's also apparently an exception for 3" pipe holes in one 2x4 wall stud so long as you double that stud up; then you can go up to 60% of the studs width on load bearing walls. But you can't do that for two studs in a row [I think... it gets a little fuzzy. I guess they're saying if you have to run a 3" pipe horizontally through a wall, you need to make the wall studs 2x6.]

So 1 7/16" hole in 2x4 and 2 3/16" in 2x6 load-bearing walls, and for the non-load bearing walls; 2 1/8" hole in 2x4 and 3 5/16" in 2x6 walls.

They also talked about notches - I'm not personally keen on them as they are apparently not recommended, but for the sake of sharing my hunt results: notches in load bearing studs up to 25% of the studs width and up to 40% in non-load bearing studs. Should notch near the top, rather than the bottom, don't locate a notch near knots, and don't put too many notches in the same area.

----

For the top plates and sills I found only discussion about the plates on "wood panel shear walls":

2x4 double top plates and 2x4 or 3x4 sill plates - 1 1/4" max hole diameter, and "the center of the bore cannot be more than 1 1/2 from the edge" [I believe they essentially mean it needs to be centered on the plate], and they need to be more than 1' apart (on center.)

2x6 double top plates and 2x6 or 3x6 sill plates - 2" max hole diameter, 2 1/2" max to the "center of the hole," and 1' OC minimum apart.

2x8 double top plates and 2x8 or 2x6 sill plates - 3" max hole diameter, 3 1/2" max to the "center of the hole", and 1' OC minimum apart.

I also found a number of references that non load-bearing top and sill plates can be bored up to 50% of it's width, and if you go more than 50% the width you have to put on metal strapping.

----

For floor joists I found that holes may not be greater than 33% of the joists depth, and they cannot be closer than 2" from the top or bottom edge of the joists.

Notches cannot be more than 1/6 the depth of the joist nor greater than 1/3 of the joists length. Notches at the ends of joists should be no greater than 25% joist depth, and you cannot notch within the center third of a joists length. Also notches should not be perfectly square or rectangle because they apparently crack at the corners (aka cut a trapezoid shape instead of a square/rectangle.)

* I also read about something called "ripping" where folks apparently cut off the top of the floor joists to put down flooring (o.O) As one (on here) might expect, that is not at all a good idea.
(My original thread here - https://www.diychatroom.com/newreply...eply&p=5768871)
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:53 PM   #15
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Re: Notched studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowler View Post
From what I can tell now it doesn't appear to be load bearing. With that in mind are the notches still something to be worried about?
Yes... because

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowler View Post
On the other side of the wall there is kitchen cabinetry
Wall mounted cabinets (not floor mounted) put a bending moment into the studs, see diagram below:

Also the other diagram below is a graphic representation of what was discussed previously about code notching specifications.
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Notched studs-wall-mounted-cabinets.jpg   Notched studs-stud-notching.gif  
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