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Old 01-30-2016, 10:40 PM   #16
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I won't be saddling the beam/header.
It will be supported each end sitting on 4x4 posts.
There is a floor above, but directly above this area is attic space
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:38 AM   #17
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The stairwell being adjacent to your header project could complicate the issue. The opening for the stairs cut all of the joists that were in the way and probably doubled up on each end to help with support. It looks like your new recessed beam would be cutting one of those doubles. Even if not doubled, there is concern that the remaining joists are under more load than might be expected. When you cut those joists you may discover that they separate as the exterior walls move outward. That risk is why your code people will need an engineer to say all will be ok.

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Old 02-02-2016, 09:31 AM   #18
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Header under, over or in a joist bay, are all same things. Your building department should ok it with a new drawing. Make the corrected drawing on the plan and you should be able to do it yourself. Minimum you can do is try.
Joists serve a purpose as wall/roof ties too, and the hangers are usually approved, but short hanger nails are not. If not, use straps/angles/threaded rods. Doesn't have to be every joist.
If recessing, you will need more room. You may have to move the temp wall. Definitely cut out more sheetrock. Have ocillating saw, sharp chisel and grinder handy for tight space/nails. May want angle drill or palm nailer/compressor. Joists may have more nails from top than you guess. Don't try to yank out the cut in one piece. Make header sample and test each cut bay. 1/8" is very acceptable with a hanger.
Don't cut the header to fit tight. You may have to lift it straight up.
If the space above is attic, anyway you can take the lumber in pieces and make the header above?

Last edited by carpdad; 02-02-2016 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:18 AM   #19
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There is a difference between a below header that supports joists above, and a flush header that supports joists via brackets. In the case of the (conventional) below header, the joists above are typically nailed together where they cross the header. So the joists go into tension if the walls exert spreading forces, and the tension is carried in shear by the nails that hold the joists together.

In the case of a flush header, the brackets need to carry the tension. So you need the correct bracket that is capable of carrying the pullout forces on the bracket exerted by the wall. Nails are typically not suitable for direct pullout loads, so the bracket has to be designed to develop the required force through shear. Make sure you use the right bracket, if I were doing the job I would use a Simpson bracket, and I would call Simpson directly to make SURE I was using the correct bracket for the job.
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
There is a difference between a below header that supports joists above, and a flush header that supports joists via brackets. In the case of the (conventional) below header, the joists above are typically nailed together where they cross the header. So the joists go into tension if the walls exert spreading forces, and the tension is carried in shear by the nails that hold the joists together.

In the case of a flush header, the brackets need to carry the tension. So you need the correct bracket that is capable of carrying the pullout forces on the bracket exerted by the wall. Nails are typically not suitable for direct pullout loads, so the bracket has to be designed to develop the required force through shear. Make sure you use the right bracket, if I were doing the job I would use a Simpson bracket, and I would call Simpson directly to make SURE I was using the correct bracket for the job.
I went with simpson stuff and ordered it the other week. its definitely beefy and I had shown my draftsman them with their load rating numbers etc and said they are all good.
The support post bracket that is.

Were you talking about joist hangers or the post bracket

Last edited by brady5885; 02-02-2016 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carpdad View Post
Header under, over or in a joist bay, are all same things. Your building department should ok it with a new drawing. Make the corrected drawing on the plan and you should be able to do it yourself. Minimum you can do is try.
Joists serve a purpose as wall/roof ties too, and the hangers are usually approved, but short hanger nails are not. If not, use straps/angles/threaded rods. Doesn't have to be every joist.
If recessing, you will need more room. You may have to move the temp wall. Definitely cut out more sheetrock. Have ocillating saw, sharp chisel and grinder handy for tight space/nails. May want angle drill or palm nailer/compressor. Joists may have more nails from top than you guess. Don't try to yank out the cut in one piece. Make header sample and test each cut bay. 1/8" is very acceptable with a hanger.
Don't cut the header to fit tight. You may have to lift it straight up.
If the space above is attic, anyway you can take the lumber in pieces and make the header above?
I spoke to my draftsman and he said its ok to go ahead and use 3 x 2x8s along with hangers. And to go ahead and just do it, if the inspector wants new drawings he can change them to match how its installed.

So now I have a new dilemma, long story short, now I want it flush I have to move my support column 8" back, which puts me off the center of my 24"x24"x10" footer with rebar in it.
The new center will be 4" from the edge of the footer, will that still be ok????

I only have attic space above...
He said I'm prob ok, just depends on the inspector. thoughts?

Last edited by brady5885; 02-02-2016 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:17 PM   #22
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Very unusual that a draftsman has the skills and confidence to offer structural advice. But since you seem to trust your draftsman, and they apparently are comfortable sizing beams, perhaps they can tell you of an off center post is OK.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:49 PM   #23
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Very unusual that a draftsman has the skills and confidence to offer structural advice. But since you seem to trust your draftsman, and they apparently are comfortable sizing beams, perhaps they can tell you of an off center post is OK.
He designs home additions and specs out beams and loads as far as numbers all the time. he just wasn't sure enough to say its fine on this particular kind of question.
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