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Old 05-23-2016, 11:02 AM   #1
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Moving angled braces in Shower walls


Hello,
I attached a picture of the back wall of my shower stripped to the studs.

There appears to be angled braces i'm assuming for re-enforcement.
However the center brace is not secure at all, it's being held in by one nail that is bent and the wood seems like it has started to rot away. It's loose and doesn't seem like it's doing the bracing it's intended for. We discovered this yesterday during demo.
Anyways, we would like to install a shower niche in the center stud area and because of the brace positions it's right in the spot where we want to do the niche.
Can we move this angle in the center elsewhere or re-secure it somewhere else in the stud area?

Any advice for re-configuration would be helpful.
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Moving angled braces in Shower walls-shower_angles.png  
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:09 PM   #2
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That brace is doing nothing......cut away!
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:50 PM   #3
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Re: Moving angled braces in Shower walls


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Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
That brace is doing nothing......cut away!
This is bad advice you need to know more about this wall. Is it a wall that is supposed to provide shear to the overall structure, is it a bearing wall if it is either one of these you would want to find a way to provide an alternative to the bracing rather than just cutting it out. Just because a house is not falling down does not mean that you can take away an integral part of the structure. Some parts of the structure would stay standing but say you have an earthquake or a wind event that part might come into play.

edit: it may not be doing anything but is it supposed to be doing something and if its not, should this be corrected?
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:25 AM   #4
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The advice was perfectly fine, if it were sheer wall you would see plywood and even if it was you could still cut that block since sheerwalls are important from sole plate to top plate and have nothing to do with midway blocking. If it were a let in brace it would be cut across the face of all studs and it clearly is not........go ahead and cut away! I will not post on something i am unsure of. If anything you will be adding strength when you put in the top and bottom blocks for your shampoo niche so go ahead and cut with confidence!
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:22 AM   #5
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Re: Moving angled braces in Shower walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
The advice was perfectly fine, if it were sheer wall you would see plywood and even if it was you could still cut that block since sheerwalls are important from sole plate to top plate and have nothing to do with midway blocking. If it were a let in brace it would be cut across the face of all studs and it clearly is not........go ahead and cut away! I will not post on something i am unsure of. If anything you will be adding strength when you put in the top and bottom blocks for your shampoo niche so go ahead and cut with confidence!
Again incorrect. Building construction has changed many times over the years. The OP cannot remove that bracing from the wall.

They need to fix any that is not secured & rotting. It is there to give lateral strength for when the structure may move during higher winds then the construction was built for.

I would suggest that you read up on the IRC and also the history of building construction.



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Old 05-25-2016, 03:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
The advice was perfectly fine, if it were sheer wall you would see plywood and even if it was you could still cut that block since sheerwalls are important from sole plate to top plate and have nothing to do with midway blocking. If it were a let in brace it would be cut across the face of all studs and it clearly is not........go ahead and cut away! I will not post on something i am unsure of. If anything you will be adding strength when you put in the top and bottom blocks for your shampoo niche so go ahead and cut with confidence!
Again incorrect. Building construction has changed many times over the years. The OP cannot remove that bracing from the wall.

They need to fix any that is not secured & rotting. It is there to give lateral strength for when the structure may move during higher winds then the construction was built for.

I would suggest that you read up on the IRC and also the history of building construction.
Say what you want, you can read your book until you are blue in the face. I am a licensed framer and it is blatently obvious that brace isnt holding up anything.........its not rocket science.The hardi backer or lath and float that goes on that wall when he closes it up will do more for that wall than that block ever will.......keyword being BLOCK lol

Last edited by FullSwing; 05-25-2016 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
The advice was perfectly fine, if it were sheer wall you would see plywood and even if it was you could still cut that block since sheerwalls are important from sole plate to top plate and have nothing to do with midway blocking. If it were a let in brace it would be cut across the face of all studs and it clearly is not........go ahead and cut away! I will not post on something i am unsure of. If anything you will be adding strength when you put in the top and bottom blocks for your shampoo niche so go ahead and cut with confidence!
Again incorrect. Building construction has changed many times over the years. The OP cannot remove that bracing from the wall.

They need to fix any that is not secured & rotting. It is there to give lateral strength for when the structure may move during higher winds then the construction was built for.

I would suggest that you read up on the IRC and also the history of building construction.
Say what you want, you can read your book until you are blue in the face. I am a framer and it is blatently obvious that brace isnt holding up anything.........its not rocket science.The hardi backer or lath and float that goes on that wall when he closes it up will do more for the sheer value in the wall than that block ever will. Looking for more sheer? Add plywood before tile substrate.
On another note if your goal is to add sheer value sheet it with structural plywood before installing your tile substrate.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:36 PM   #8
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Re: Moving angled braces in Shower walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
Say what you want, you can read your book until you are blue in the face. I am a licensed framer and it is blatently obvious that brace isnt holding up anything.........its not rocket science.The hardi backer or lath and float that goes on that wall when he closes it up will do more for that wall than that block ever will.......keyword being BLOCK lol
The point is not whether or not the blocking is currently or ever was giving shear value but whether that was the intention of the blocking. You may be a framer but you were not framing houses in 1919 and you did not frame this house so you do not know the intent of the blocking.

So ya, its not really rocket surgery but its easy to infer from the giant X pattern of the blocking that it was intended to provide shear value to this wall most of us were not born yesterday and can clearly see that the blocking is not doing sh!t but whether or not the wall needs added shear value will still need to be determined.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingledtrash View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
Say what you want, you can read your book until you are blue in the face. I am a licensed framer and it is blatently obvious that brace isnt holding up anything.........its not rocket science.The hardi backer or lath and float that goes on that wall when he closes it up will do more for that wall than that block ever will.......keyword being BLOCK lol
The point is not whether or not the blocking is currently or ever was giving shear value but whether that was the intention of the blocking. You may be a framer but you were not framing houses in 1919 and you did not frame this house so you do not know the intent of the blocking.

So ya, its not really rocket surgery but its easy to infer from the giant X pattern of the blocking that it was intended to provide shear value to this wall most of us were not born yesterday and can clearly see that the blocking is not doing sh!t but whether or not the wall needs added shear value will still need to be determined.
So then what you are saying is dont cut the block and call an engineer? Just seems overboard to me but i guess difference in opinions makes the world go round.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:48 PM   #10
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Re: Moving angled braces in Shower walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by FullSwing View Post
So then what you are saying is dont cut the block and call an engineer? Just seems overboard to me but i guess difference in opinions makes the world go round.
well i guess what i am saying is more info about the wall is needed before one could just cut out a giant X brace and then not provide any alternative shear value to the wall. like i said in my first post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingledtrash View Post
This is bad advice you need to know more about this wall. Is it a wall that is supposed to provide shear to the overall structure, is it a bearing wall if it is either one of these you would want to find a way to provide an alternative to the bracing rather than just cutting it out. Just because a house is not falling down does not mean that you can take away an integral part of the structure. Some parts of the structure would stay standing but say you have an earthquake or a wind event that part might come into play.

edit: it may not be doing anything but is it supposed to be doing something and if its not, should this be corrected?
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:38 PM   #11
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Re: Moving angled braces in Shower walls


Mingledtrash, I guess that I could post a scan of a page or two from the book that I have, that shows old building techniques. I would not even touch a house that has been built in the past four decades. They are nothing but throw away junk from what I have seen.

My place survived the Earthquake that we had in 2008. It has survived over 70 years, compared to homes around our town that were just thrown together in three months.



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Old 05-25-2016, 11:04 PM   #12
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Re: Moving angled braces in Shower walls


IMHO, that is an older style diagonal brace line meant to provide wall lateral resistance, the best they had before structural panel plywood/osb. As it appears to be fiber board for sheathing, the framer installed it for shear, to meet code requirements OR he wouldn't have put it in, unless a DIY who didn't know better... I'm guessing it is close to a house corner... hence the requirement. When I started framing houses in '73, we installed 1x4 let-in braces- those walls were not going to move- or so we thought; http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publication...n-the-outside/ As we cannot see the top plate or bottom plate, we can't be sure it is useless... pic from farther back would help. What type of siding, in a corner?

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