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Old 01-12-2019, 08:49 AM   #31
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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Originally Posted by davison0976 View Post
You are absolutely correct, it should be perpendicular. I don't know what I was thinking. How did you find out it's 5" since there were not enough variables to solve it empirically? Very impressive!
LOL I just took your drawing and referenced it into CAD, assuming your property line angle was more or less correct.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:22 PM   #32
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


Sewer - is there a cleanout at the first "Y" (and definitely one at the 90 turn)? How deep below the basement is it, and how will that affect you building a foundation on top of it? I did understand you saying the front baths would run out the front - but is it legal to have 2 additional (1 old, 1 new) connections outside the house footprint (assuming the main stack is the one in line with the stair)? I've never seen it like that, so I don't even know what the book says. Even a couple old coach houses I've come across ran into the main house and connected there.

Not trying to focus too much on the sewer, but it may affect the location of your addition.

Also, here's a little secret: there is no standard cost/sf in residential. There are too many variables in finishes from shingles to subfloor. To be within $150K, keep the layout simple. For starters just one addition and no side bumpout causing a complicated roof.

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Old 01-12-2019, 09:43 PM   #33
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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60' setback is a lot - I'm sure the township would give you a variance for building into that setback - typical process is to apply for variance, pay fee they charge, and their Board of Adjustments holds a public hearing on it where you state your case and your neighbors can go and tell them, no problem, let him do it.

Interesting that the sewer lines go out back and come 90 degrees around to front - why wouldn't they just have run it out the front when hut was built

In fact, my neighbor went through this process recently when adding a sun room. He ended up hiring a lawyer for that. All worked out well for him.


I am trying to stay within the limits, but if it comes to it, I think over a foot or so difference I should be able to get variance approved.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:08 PM   #34
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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Sewer - is there a cleanout at the first "Y" (and definitely one at the 90 turn)? How deep below the basement is it, and how will that affect you building a foundation on top of it? I did understand you saying the front baths would run out the front - but is it legal to have 2 additional (1 old, 1 new) connections outside the house footprint (assuming the main stack is the one in line with the stair)? I've never seen it like that, so I don't even know what the book says. Even a couple old coach houses I've come across ran into the main house and connected there.

Not trying to focus too much on the sewer, but it may affect the location of your addition.

Also, here's a little secret: there is no standard cost/sf in residential. There are too many variables in finishes from shingles to subfloor. To be within $150K, keep the layout simple. For starters just one addition and no side bumpout causing a complicated roof.

There is a clean out at the 90 degree turn. It's not a hard 90 turn of course. I might had misspoke. I meant I would connect new lines to the existing line. Only existing main connection will be there.


That said, I want to replace the sewer line completely. It's cast iron and by the looks of it has been in the ground for about 30 years. The house was built in early 1960' and it appears at least part of the sewer line has already been replaced once, probably in the 1990s. I had seen pieces of cast iron when I dug around the existing line this summer to solve a drainage problem.


The lines exiting the house are 2ft below grade and are 6" above the basement slab. At the 90 turn the line is about 3' below grade.


That's one of the reasons I want to work out a layout, so that I know how the new system will have to be designed. I would never put a foundation over the existing line.


I also think original builder putting lines outside of the house in the back, as opposed to running them under the slab toward the city main was a long term thinker. A lot better to dig dirt than to dig dirt and tear concrete foundation of the house.


As far as the cost, you know what really gets me going on this, is that no one was able or willing to provide me with any kind of itemized cost estimates. Like materials, labor etc.


Some of these dudes just want to spend someone else's money. I had one contractor bragging how he can put in a kitchen for 300K. Seriously? Is that what, supposed to be gold plated?


And then this friend of mine does a TV service not long ago for one of contractors in the area at a newly built house. And there is another newly built house right next to it. Talks with the contractor about this and that. Comes to find out the contractor bought an empty lot, subdivided it in 2 (all legally through the town, of course), then built the two new houses roughly 2500sq ft for around 150K a pop. There you go, a hole house in the expensive NJ for 150K.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:24 PM   #35
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


First of all, let me say how grateful and appreciative I am for the feedback, ideas, suggestions and personal experiences all of you have shared! I just couldn't see on my own many of the things you have pointed out. Truly a huge thank you to all!


I've tried to incorporate as much as I possibly could while still working within the known constraint, and came up with an alternative plan shown below. I like it the most so far, and by a good margin.


It also solves a pain point of having garage under the bedrooms. Currently, I roll out my car (manual transmission) every weekday morning at 6:30 manually from the garage because my wife is sleeping. If started in the garage it literally sounds like the car is standing right next to a bed.


Hopefully this is a step in a better direction. Please let me know what do you think. The entry room/area will have a staircase into the basement. That will take up some of the space. I had to sacrifice master bedroom size and closet size, but both a still very functional in my opinion. My wife said she would prefer kitchen island to have no appliances on top from the usable space point of view.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:34 AM   #36
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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Currently, I roll out my car (manual transmission) every weekday morning at 6:30 manually from the garage because my wife is sleeping. If started in the garage it literally sounds like the car is standing right next to a bed.
You driving a Civic or WRX with a fart can? Not that there's anything wrong with that . . .

My neighbor would start his Harley in second every morning to not wake all the neighbors up at 6:30.

Not to defend GC pricing, but remodels/additions are always more $$ on an apples-to-apples comparo with a whole house build because of no efficiencies in staging, custom work, etc. etc. etc. And when they give a bid they might see that new WRX with the fart can in the garage thinking you're loaded

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Old 01-13-2019, 01:06 AM   #37
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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You driving a Civic or WRX with a fart can? Not that there's anything wrong with that . . .

My neighbor would start his Harley in second every morning to not wake all the neighbors up at 6:30.

Not to defend GC pricing, but remodels/additions are always more $$ on an apples-to-apples comparo with a whole house build because of no efficiencies in staging, custom work, etc. etc. etc. And when they give a bid they might see that new WRX with the fart can in the garage thinking you're loaded

"Fart can", - that's funny! But no, I am a Jeep Wrangler guy and I like to keep my vehicles for a very loooong time. The exhaust is stock by the way.
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:48 AM   #38
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


How much cooking and baking do you guys do? Not a lot of cabinet space in the new design. (You saw my cabinets, right? I don't have enough cabinet space.)




That said, I like the new layout, but you've sure taken out a lot of the load bearing wall with it. Are you thinking to have beams on the ceiling in the dining room and right side bedroom, because I think you'll need em.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:24 AM   #39
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


I would go with the top one for sure.

you want to get the family room furthest away from all the bedrooms as possible.

also you dont want to walk in the house and be facing someones bedroom.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:24 AM   #40
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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How much cooking and baking do you guys do? Not a lot of cabinet space in the new design. (You saw my cabinets, right? I don't have enough cabinet space.)
I was gonna say—unless those 3 grey blocks in the dining room are cabinets, he doesn't have enough of them.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:12 PM   #41
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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How much cooking and baking do you guys do? Not a lot of cabinet space in the new design. (You saw my cabinets, right? I don't have enough cabinet space.)


That said, I like the new layout, but you've sure taken out a lot of the load bearing wall with it. Are you thinking to have beams on the ceiling in the dining room and right side bedroom, because I think you'll need em.

Yes I did see you mentioning that you are looking to add more cabinets. We are trying to "feel through" having just the two wall mounted cabinets right now. In the current kitchen we are actively using 2. One is 32high by 36wide that holds daily use plates, cups and glasses. Another is 32high by 21wide by the stove with small batch cooking essentials like salt, pepper, spices etc.


If we are not at work we eat almost exclusively food cooked at home. Including weekends, roughly half of the meals are cooked at home. If anything, I may just wrap the new kitchen around where the small bay window is and either join the counter with an island or shorten the island from 8 to 6 feet. I kind of like to be able to walk around it.


The new proposed layout has 2 full height cabinets next to the oven cabinet.




As far as the load bearing wall, most of it is still there. The 13'-7" opening is just 2 feet wider than I currently have on the other side, and the house has stood without any wall cracks or sagging since early 1960's. I'll just have to see how they framed the existing opening and do the same on the other side. If town building department will want me to get an engineer's sign off I will gladly do so.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:43 AM   #42
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


@davison0976


Great idea to try 'faking' it now with 2 upper cabinets for sure. With the cabinet units in the dining room for pantry/storage and the island for work-surface it could work.


Ah in post #6 you had the "top" wall marked as load bearing.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:27 PM   #43
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


Just another spin on your much-improved layout. If you open up the area in the red dashed portion, you can also enlarge your office area and still have a very "open feeling" entrance into the home with excellent flow.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:52 AM   #44
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


Where did the stairs go? in your remodel layouts I don't see the stairs that are shown in the as is layout
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:53 PM   #45
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Re: Which layout would you go with?


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Where did the stairs go? in your remodel layouts I don't see the stairs that are shown in the as is layout

That's one sharp pair of eyes you have there, Jack! The question has been asked several times thus far, and the OP has answered in posts #6 and #35. Essentially not seen, but not forgotten.
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