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Old 11-27-2016, 02:33 PM   #1
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Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


I have steps leading to a landing at the front of my house, there is stone placed randomly with mortar. Over the years due to rain the stone has started to seperate due to poor drainage and lack of waterproof. I have already had to remove the stone off the first 3 treads, reframe, and waterproof them. Now the rest of the steps are beginning to water rot also. I have decided to completely redo all the treads, waterproofing them and giving them proper slope and drainage.

My question is how to do the waterproofing.

After I remove the stone and scrape the excess material off im going to reframe the treads then I want to waterproof them and then re-mortar the stone.

Whats the best way to waterproof wood treads prior to mortar and stone? I have thought about applying chicken wire and tar, and also redgard waterproofing membrane... can you apply those directly to wood?

Any ideas to waterproof wood framing on treads for exterior stone?
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Old 11-27-2016, 02:54 PM   #2
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


Going to need a picture for this one so we can see what your seeing.
Trying to picture where wood framing and a stone step come into play.
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Old 11-27-2016, 02:58 PM   #3
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


A picture is priceless.

You should not have wood treads with stone on it, the two different materials will expand and contract with temperature changes differently, and the bond will be groken, as you have experienced.

I recommend rebuilding with C M U's first, then re-stone the face.

But if you must use wood, I would try some of that FLEX-SEAL stuff to waterproof the wood.

It is a lot better than I expected it to be, and I have used it for many sealing purposes.


ED
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:08 PM   #4
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


Heres a few pictures. Its wood framed stairs, then it looks like some sort of tar paper, then tar material, then mortar then the stone. When I go into the crawl space under the stairs all the wood is rotting, already had many of the stones pop off and i can literally put my hand down the hole because the wood is so rotted.

http://imgur.com/a/rpOdh
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:12 PM   #5
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


Quote:
Its wood framed stairs, then it looks like some sort of tar paper, then tar material, then mortar then the stone. When I go into the crawl space under the stairs all the wood is rotting, already had many of the stones pop off and i can literally put my hand down the hole because the wood is so rotted.
Ayuh,.... Yer gonna have to rip 'em out, 'n start over,....

No way yer gonna hold rocks to rotten wood,....
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:16 PM   #6
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


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Ayuh,.... Yer gonna have to rip 'em out, 'n start over,....

No way yer gonna hold rocks to rotten wood,....
Definately, however the stringers are in great condition, no rotting. So I dont mind demoing everything but leaving the stringers are rebuilding on that, question is how do i build attach the stone to the wood and waterproof it..

Or was this whole thing just bad construction from the start?
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:19 PM   #7
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


That is a disaster.

As I stated this should NEVER HAVE BEEN BUILT.

It needs removed, and rebuilt proper if you want the stone steps.

Otherwise it will just keep on happening every 10 years or so.

C M U 's are inexpensive, they will need a proper footer and common sense building practices, but will last longer than you will.

And you will be proud of yourself for building it correct this time.

ED
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:32 PM   #8
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


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That is a disaster.

As I stated this should NEVER HAVE BEEN BUILT.

It needs removed, and rebuilt proper if you want the stone steps.

Otherwise it will just keep on happening every 10 years or so.

C M U 's are inexpensive, they will need a proper footer and common sense building practices, but will last longer than you will.

And you will be proud of yourself for building it correct this time.

ED
Thats what I was fearing the most, but thanks so much for the info..

So heres 3 more pictures,

http://imgur.com/a/e53Lk

That wall/railing setup has its own footing and framing, can I leave all of that, remove the stairs and the landing framing and put CMUs inside/up the middle? Or does all of that need to get demo'd and rebuilt properly...

And from another point of view, is there anyway i can do a tile-like build on the stairs? Putting hardy over the framing then the stone on top of that?
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:47 PM   #9
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


Is that a stucco structure, or something more solid?

With the air vent and what appears to be a sawzall cut in a couple of places it looks more like stucco.

It was a beautiful design, but poorly executed, and is in need of help before someone gets hurt on it.

Where is your place, a general area will help in giving good help, because what is best in "snowville", is not best in "gatorville".

And without seeing the "BONES" of the structure it's very hard to say how much needs to be replaced.

It does look like you need to investigate deeper, You say that the stringers are still sound, but I am skeptical.


ED
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:02 PM   #10
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


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Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
Is that a stucco structure, or something more solid?

With the air vent and what appears to be a sawzall cut in a couple of places it looks more like stucco.

It was a beautiful design, but poorly executed, and is in need of help before someone gets hurt on it.

Where is your place, a general area will help in giving good help, because what is best in "snowville", is not best in "gatorville".

And without seeing the "BONES" of the structure it's very hard to say how much needs to be replaced.

It does look like you need to investigate deeper, You say that the stringers are still sound, but I am skeptical.


ED
Thanks man I really appreciate you taking the time and helping me out with this. I was originally going to do the bare minimum but youre right it would be best to take the time to do it right...

http://imgur.com/a/JuLUf

Heres some more photos of under the stairs and landing. The stringers are pretty bad actually now that i took a second look...

The location is northern california, near monterey. Santa Cruz to be exact, a couple miles from the ocean, its cold and wet in the mornings and we havent had much rain lately but when we do get it, we get it bad for a few days... Otherwise mostly sunny..

The last photo in that group is the same build in the backside of the house, it hardly ever sees rain and has no signs of rot however it is built with wood framing and stone on top...

Also, that "Sawzall" cut is actually the stucco cracking, theres a few spots around there that are doing the same.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:23 PM   #11
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


I see several water stains inside there.

Which signifies that a bare minimum "Band-Aid" is not a recommendation that I am comfortable with.

I would be tearing it down to the footer that I see in there, and rebuilding with C M U's , and giving it some love.

The C M U's can be re-stuccoed afterwards, and look as good as it did when built the first time.

And use STEEL treads to form the stairs, You can save the stone veneer and put it back in place afterward, using expanded metal as a support frame for the stone.

There are several other advisors here from your area and will have some input on this when they see the need for it.

ED
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:29 PM   #12
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


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Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
I see several water stains inside there.

Which signifies that a bare minimum "Band-Aid" is not a recommendation that I am comfortable with.

I would be tearing it down to the footer that I see in there, and rebuilding with C M U's , and giving it some love.

The C M U's can be re-stuccoed afterwards, and look as good as it did when built the first time.

And use STEEL treads to form the stairs, You can save the stone veneer and put it back in place afterward, using expanded metal as a support frame for the stone.

There are several other advisors here from your area and will have some input on this when they see the need for it.

ED
Thanks again!
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:39 PM   #13
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


You're Welcome.

I hope to see a work in progress, and a completed project later.

ED
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:44 PM   #14
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


One more quick question, if I did CMUs, and wanted to keep the crawlspace but also keep the stone, for the landing, what would I use as a floorjoist since wood isnt available to keep the stone?

Or is that not a possibility, would the CMUs have to be solid throughout the entire stairs, landing, etc.. therefore eliminating a crawlspace.

Last edited by rtyler831; 11-27-2016 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:41 PM   #15
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Re: Exterior Stone Front Steps - Waterdamage


I would build each step with steel tread, and use expanded steel mesh as the riser to adhere the stones with mortar to.

As for the landing I would anchor steel grate in the C M U walls at the height needed to be at the threshold, then use expanded mesh again to hold the mortar then the stone floor.

And you can build a small door in the same area that you have one now, just use a steel lintel to support the C M U's above. To still have the crawlspace, even include the air vent. and any other thing you have there except the cobwebs.

And Stucco it to match the rest of the home.

ED
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