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Old 07-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #16
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


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Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
...where the upper stair stringer meets the landing...



Its not a landing........yet
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:51 PM   #17
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


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I think the problem is that the triangular treads are considered winders, and code is that minimum width of winders (at the inside of the turn) is 6". Those winders taper down to zero width.

If you paid for an architect to come up with the design --- did you already shoot it back to him to let him come up with a solution?
Definitely have the architect deal with the code issue.....

Ah bless you guys for still using the imperial system. Do you know how much that messed me up after leaving architecture school in the US and realizing the rest of world uses metric....it took a while to readjust. but yeah what he said.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:07 PM   #18
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


Hello SPS-1,
You've got it right. They want us to ":close off" those 6 inches because of safety factor that people might step on that area of the stair and slip.

All the architect suggests to us is a HUGE wood post to block off that area. It's a very small entryway and that post would look out of place. I might have to be the way I go, but was hoping for a bit of creativity to get around putting a big post there. And then what do I do with the handrail?

It's not just the railing, but the handrail must be continuous and I can't seem to make it look good with that post there,. because it has to zigzag back and forth where the other posts are. Hope I'm explaining that right.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:14 PM   #19
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


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Originally Posted by Gregsoldtruck79 View Post
Is something like this Ed, what that you are describing ?
Hi Greg,
That works for the one stair but then I have to deal with the one above too. That's why it would have to be a big post on the thread above too.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:16 PM   #20
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


have the hand rail attach to the "post"

so visually it looks like it going through it but its structurally 2 pieces. no zig zag
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:22 PM   #21
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


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Maybe.?


Hi Ron, that's the look I was going for. But the cable railing people are telling me the base of the metal posts are 4inches wide. To anchor all 4 corners of those metal posts, I lose over 7 inches of the stair. See the little orange square in the picture. That represents 4 inches, which is what they need to bolt properly unto the stair.

I notice that you do not seem to have a "base" on your metal posts.. Or is that an illusion? Can you send a close up on the bottom of your metal posts? How are they anchored? It looks like just a straight post down, without a "base" to anchor the post.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:27 PM   #22
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


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Originally Posted by ron45 View Post
Maybe.?


The post they are proposing. (Hope I am doing this right).

Linda
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:42 PM   #23
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


Other than the cost, any reason you can't rip out the bottom portion of the stairs, and re-build it either with code acceptable winders , or with a landing?
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:10 PM   #24
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


Hi again SPS-1,

I've thought about suggesting it. But my hubby will flip.

The other reason I'm not sure it will help. See pic. It's so close to the door. Not sure if there is a code restriction for that too. May be be too close to the main entrance door.
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Last edited by BigJim; 07-18-2018 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:10 PM   #25
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


I figured out that I need to provide smaller or "square" pictures to avoid them from going horizontal. Sorry about the past pics folks. I think I know what to do now.

Last edited by [email protected]; 07-18-2018 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:16 PM   #26
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


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Originally Posted by SPS-1 View Post
Other than the cost, any reason you can't rip out the bottom portion of the stairs, and re-build it either with code acceptable winders , or with a landing?
SPS-1 and helping DIY team,
What do you all think about using glass? and extending the glass past that area? See pic.; Not sure how to do the railing then, but thinking of maybe that as an option?
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:50 PM   #27
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


I like the glass better than the cables, myself. But that is just personal taste. Not sure how that helps your situation.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:28 AM   #28
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


The other thing to consider is stair width. I am not sure of all the stair codes, but I believe that minimum stair width is 36". If you put a big newel structure inboard, do you still have 36" ?
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:26 PM   #29
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


Hey guys I'm gonna give this one more shot and I hope it helps. From what i understand the main issue as SPS-1 put it was the winder minimum on one edge. Architects/Builders usually go for this kind of stair when a landing would take up too much space (Which we'll come back to at the end). Based on my understanding, you don't need railings at all for this to conform to code; I have repurposed my solution of building up a gypsum or wood wall to both fix your code violation and create a storage niche, and even overall creating a safer staircase. You can see this in the first 2 attachments. Now as for the last attachment, it refers to your last query, re the door/stair conflict. Im pretty sure that it is accepted internationally that any landing is to have a clear Length equal to the Width of a the stair Tread.

Again, refer to your local code for Residential stairs. 36 in is a relatively standard international minimum, its equal to approx 1 meter. But i have seen legal applications in Secondary residential stairs as little as 80cm (± 31.5 in )


Since most of these codes are created for safety reasons The landing width and length etc are usually regulated for safe/rapid evacuation in case of fire. Which brings me to the point at baffles me: The door opens to the inside. This violates 2 things 1. Fire code as fire exits always open outwards and 2. There is pretty much no landing with the door open. Had the door been flipped i think you'd be just dealing with the issue of the 2 winder treads that ed at 0 rather than 6.

If you did not build these stairs, find out who did...and hold them accountable. Given the layout and what i just mentioned these were clearly added after the fact and most probably not included in the building permit.

I hope this helps; as for aesthetics both glass and cables would be way too gaudy for the space in my opinion. The stairs are too small to have any form of "elaborate" railing as you'll probably end up with either 3 panes of glass and all their fittings and fixings creating a Cluster$%#$% where there were only a few steps, or some tensile structure (cables) that would waaaay overdo it because you don't need such rigidity and structural strength here. I say build up a gypsum storage nook resting on the 3rd stair tread and provide a little door to access your new storage area! Best
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:40 AM   #30
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Re: Desperate for a fix for my stair railing requirement


It appears to me the wall at the top of the stairs is the problem. In order to keep a 1 1/2 clearance from the handrail to the wall the stair installer needs to position the post that far in, that’s whats developing the big gap. The longer post mentioned in comment two is the right answer with the handrail making an offset at the top to provide the handrail clearance needed plus be continious.
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