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Old 12-12-2018, 02:38 PM   #1
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Basement - Tin Studs


Once I'm done with some flooring upstairs, I'm looking to rough out my basement. I plan on using tin studs (lightweight, easy to work with, consistently straight, can sit around and not warp).

My question is.. after snapping out lines for where my walls and doors will be, and using a Hilti-Gun for shooting into the floor, what does the top plate connect to for the wall? I plan on plumb-bobbing so I get everything lined up correctly, but what does that top run of u-channel screw into, especially if it is parallel to floor joists? Do I need to screw in a crosspiece between the joists and screw the top of the wall into that? Are there any code requirements for this that I am unaware of?

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Old 12-12-2018, 03:30 PM   #2
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


You put 2x4 blocks between the joists about every 24" to attach the walls to.
If you are building walls inside the perimeter for insulation You start with the fire stop at the top behind that wall. Then you can transfer from there down and the corners of the basement is as square as the house is upstairs.
Tape your level to a steel stud and you don't need a wait to for a plumb bob.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:49 PM   #3
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


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You put 2x4 blocks between the joists about every 24" to attach the walls to.
If you are building walls inside the perimeter for insulation You start with the fire stop at the top behind that wall. Then you can transfer from there down and the corners of the basement is as square as the house is upstairs.
Tape your level to a steel stud and you don't need a wait to for a plumb bob.
The basement is fully insulated, however, I'll have to install access panels for plumbing clean-outs, and access to the sump pump.

Framing next to the walkout door looks to be very tight as the width is too narrow to allow a full base plate and studs. Not sure how i'll tackle that problem when i get around to it.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:14 PM   #4
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


The plumber did no favors for you The pipes at the ceiling should have been 6" away from the concrete so you could build your wall and a box to hide the plumbing.


Now what you do in that area is build a wall just lower than the pipe. Anchor that to the concrete wall in a couple places and then build a another short wall from the ceiling down to just in front of the top plate of the lower wall
There are simple access doors for the clean out that you just install with drywall mud.
http://www.mifab.com/Catalog/Access_Doors
You have I beam joists, the easy block there is a block on top of the bottom flange and another below that for those walls running parallel.
The joists are sitting on a sill at the top of the foundation. Fire stopping is to slow a fire in the wall from getting in the floor system .
30 minute burn thru rate, 1/2 plywood, OSB, drywall or 2x? goes against the sill plate out to above your wall top plate or tight against your top plate. Some holes for plumbing and heating is acceptable if kept small.
A picture of the problem at the door?.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:31 AM   #5
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


Found the video below that shows me how to do the fire-blocking as I couldn't picture it.

As for the door....part is shown in the picture above, I'll get a better picture and try to illustrate what I don't understand.

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Old 12-13-2018, 08:52 AM   #6
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


Here's a link that might provide some information on what you have. Those walls are affectionately referred to as the "diaper" except yours are foil faced. Quick and easy for the builder but far from a good starting point when finishing.

Check local building codes as all jurisdictions can decide on what they choose to follow and enforce. They may wish to inspect your improvements but you can discuss that when pulling permits.

Bud
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:18 AM   #7
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


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Here's a link that might provide some information on what you have. Those walls are affectionately referred to as the "diaper" except yours are foil faced. Quick and easy for the builder but far from a good starting point when finishing.

Check local building codes as all jurisdictions can decide on what they choose to follow and enforce. They may wish to inspect your improvements but you can discuss that when pulling permits.

Bud
Thanks for the link, it looks like for my exterior walls; I think I should look at using rigid insulation panels in addition to the existing diaper insulation.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #8
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


The real issue is, what's going on behind that pillow. It was probably installed before any moisture issues were evaluated. Unfortunately, as the article explains, virtually all basements will have moisture issues. The steps to build a truly dry basement are extensive and cost far more than builders want to invest. Note, it isn't just liquid water basements have to deal with but moisture vapor that passes right through concrete even when treated on the exterior with the typical basement coating.

Rigid foam has given us an in between solution in that it insulates yet allows a small amount of drying to the inside. It also keeps the inside surface warm enough to prevent condensation from inside humid air.

It is hard to suggest starting over but??

Have you taken a look behind the pillow to see if the concrete looks dry and no mold?

Bud

As a note, not all guidance is necessary in all homes. It is just that if followed you have a better chance of success. There are millions of homes out there with pillows on the walls with no problems, but a few have been disasters.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:48 AM   #9
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


[QUOTE=Bud9051;5709033]The real issue is, what's going on behind that pillow....

The lot slopes from front of house to back. The long pillow wall shown is alongside the walkout basement door. The exterior wall is open under a deck and above grade. I have looked behind the pillow and there is no moisture. As the lot slopes and drains well, I have no standing water issues, and my sump pump discharges and water immediately tracks away from the house. Of the two sides next to the slope, one will remain as the diaper insulation in an unfinished storage area with a barn door between storage and the rest of the basement, while the other side is directly below the living room gas fireplace. That wall is also dry behind the insulation.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:11 AM   #10
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


Where the wall is exposed to the outside above grade any moisture vapor coming from the soil below should be drying to the outside. Where the problem comes in is below grade or below the concrete floor. Moisture vapor can travel 20 or 30' through concrete trying to equalize high concentrations with low.

Neal has done far more basements than I have or will so follow his guidance. We have a bit more information than before so you might be ok keeping the pillows. As for adding rigid over the interior of the metal studs I probably wouldn't bother. maybe some Roxul in the upper area or where the foundation is exposed to the outside (plus a foot below grade).

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Old 12-13-2018, 10:37 AM   #11
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


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Where the wall is exposed to the outside above grade any moisture vapor coming from the soil below should be drying to the outside. Where the problem comes in is below grade or below the concrete floor. Moisture vapor can travel 20 or 30' through concrete trying to equalize high concentrations with low.

Neal has done far more basements than I have or will so follow his guidance. We have a bit more information than before so you might be ok keeping the pillows. As for adding rigid over the interior of the metal studs I probably wouldn't bother. maybe some Roxul in the upper area or where the foundation is exposed to the outside (plus a foot below grade).

Bud
Thanks... you've both been a big help in pointing me in the right direction. Once I get around to this project and have a better understanding of permitting, etc.. I'm sure I'll be posting something else.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:02 AM   #12
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


I have been in many finished basements and too many greet people at the top of the stairs with that "basement smell" which is related to mold. But others have been quality living space and a real asset to the home.

I was just down in my unfinished basement doing laundry and looking around thinking, Hmmm, I could rent the upstairs and easily live down here. Getting old and the extra $1,000 a month would sure be handy. And even at 71 I can still do all of the work.

Bud
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #13
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Re: Basement - Tin Studs


I would build the wall and insulate between the studs.
I have never had to deal with that insulation we some time take it down when they have not gone all the way to the floor, but as it look like it goes to the floor I don't know that it is a problem or not. I think as long as it stops warm moist air from getting to the concrete it should be good.
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