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Old 07-18-2018, 08:40 PM   #16
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That was my uncle, he tested it with his fingers, he touched the connector and i turned the key, how do I check cylinder compression?
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:21 AM   #17
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Re: My rider just died, help?


You can buy a spark plug tester, but can also connect the plugs to their leads and ground them against the engine while turning it over. A blue or white spark usually indicates a strong discharge; a red or yellow spark not so much.


You can buy a compression gauge that goes in the plug hole. Every engine will have own range of acceptable compression, but the initial diagnostic bottom line is that (a) you at least have some, and (b) the two cylinders are roughly equal. As a very basic test you can put a finger over the plug hole to see if there is any compression. If not you may have holed a piston.


You may think it is strange that it suddenly won't start after working it pretty hard but it happened to me. I had a golf cart on our farm that I used for some jobs that it likely wasn't intended for. Gave it a pretty fast run back to the barn and it never ran again (holed a piston).


If you are getting gas, a decent spark and it has compression, I'm kind of out of ideas beyond possibly a bad coil. The timing of the ignition on small engines is governed by fixed magnets in the flywheel so I can't see that being it, and it can't be the ignitor (takes the place of ignition points) since you are getting some kind of spark - if it died I don't think you'd get any spark at all.


Edit: All of these things have a number of safety sensors to keep us from maiming ourselves, such as seat, PTO, etc. On my JD (different model and engine) the engine simply won't turn over but I had another tractor and one of them would allow the engine to turn but not start. No clue how you would diagnose this. There's probably a wiring hack to bypass the safety switches but I would try to explain it over the Internet.
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Last edited by lenaitch; 07-19-2018 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:47 PM   #18
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I got some starter fluid, made the engine start with it, made a video of it, my uncle thinks its the ignition coil, i thought i would check with the folks here

https://youtu.be/gWwuUfl1VTg
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:01 PM   #19
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Re: My rider just died, help?


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Originally Posted by lenaitch View Post
You can buy a spark plug tester, but can also connect the plugs to their leads and ground them against the engine while turning it over. A blue or white spark usually indicates a strong discharge; a red or yellow spark not so much.


You can buy a compression gauge that goes in the plug hole. Every engine will have own range of acceptable compression, but the initial diagnostic bottom line is that (a) you at least have some, and (b) the two cylinders are roughly equal. As a very basic test you can put a finger over the plug hole to see if there is any compression. If not you may have holed a piston.


You may think it is strange that it suddenly won't start after working it pretty hard but it happened to me. I had a golf cart on our farm that I used for some jobs that it likely wasn't intended for. Gave it a pretty fast run back to the barn and it never ran again (holed a piston).


If you are getting gas, a decent spark and it has compression, I'm kind of out of ideas beyond possibly a bad coil. The timing of the ignition on small engines is governed by fixed magnets in the flywheel so I can't see that being it, and it can't be the ignitor (takes the place of ignition points) since you are getting some kind of spark - if it died I don't think you'd get any spark at all.


Edit: All of these things have a number of safety sensors to keep us from maiming ourselves, such as seat, PTO, etc. On my JD (different model and engine) the engine simply won't turn over but I had another tractor and one of them would allow the engine to turn but not start. No clue how you would diagnose this. There's probably a wiring hack to bypass the safety switches but I would try to explain it over the Internet.

I intended to say 'wouldn't'. My gosh - I just created a 'would vs. wouldn't' moment !!!
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenaitch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenaitch View Post
You can buy a spark plug tester, but can also connect the plugs to their leads and ground them against the engine while turning it over. A blue or white spark usually indicates a strong discharge; a red or yellow spark not so much.


You can buy a compression gauge that goes in the plug hole. Every engine will have own range of acceptable compression, but the initial diagnostic bottom line is that (a) you at least have some, and (b) the two cylinders are roughly equal. As a very basic test you can put a finger over the plug hole to see if there is any compression. If not you may have holed a piston.


You may think it is strange that it suddenly won't start after working it pretty hard but it happened to me. I had a golf cart on our farm that I used for some jobs that it likely wasn't intended for. Gave it a pretty fast run back to the barn and it never ran again (holed a piston).


If you are getting gas, a decent spark and it has compression, I'm kind of out of ideas beyond possibly a bad coil. The timing of the ignition on small engines is governed by fixed magnets in the flywheel so I can't see that being it, and it can't be the ignitor (takes the place of ignition points) since you are getting some kind of spark - if it died I don't think you'd get any spark at all.


Edit: All of these things have a number of safety sensors to keep us from maiming ourselves, such as seat, PTO, etc. On my JD (different model and engine) the engine simply won't turn over but I had another tractor and one of them would allow the engine to turn but not start. No clue how you would diagnose this. There's probably a wiring hack to bypass the safety switches but I would try to explain it over the Internet.

I intended to say 'wouldn't'. My gosh - I just created a 'would vs. wouldn't' moment !!!
not a problem, ive done things like leave off letters or words, i knew what ya meant, im wondering if there are 2 ignition coils or 1 on my machine, i don't know where to look, tge fluid made it fire up which eliminated one fear my uncle had something about a pin that kept the timing or something (and would have to have the engine taken out or apart to get to)
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:38 AM   #21
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Re: My rider just died, help?


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Originally Posted by feralfreak View Post
I got some starter fluid, made the engine start with it, made a video of it, my uncle thinks its the ignition coil, i thought i would check with the folks here

https://youtu.be/gWwuUfl1VTg
I did not see a re-start of the engine in the video. How well did it restart ? Or not ?

Coils can get weak or even like when the coil to armature gap gets knocked out spec and too wide, but most times they just fail and emit no spark. Was the grounded spark plug test ever done as recommended above to see the actual strength of the spark in the plug ? The firing of the parts cannon can get $$$$$. JMO
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:34 AM   #22
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Re: My rider just died, help?


Did it stay runnin? Did it stay running under load? Did it restart without starter fluid?

Every mower issue I have had has been about either bad fuel and/or a gummed up carb.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:03 PM   #23
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Re: My rider just died, help?


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not a problem, ive done things like leave off letters or words, i knew what ya meant, im wondering if there are 2 ignition coils or 1 on my machine, i don't know where to look, tge fluid made it fire up which eliminated one fear my uncle had something about a pin that kept the timing or something (and would have to have the engine taken out or apart to get to)

I couldn't tell from your video and I'm not familiar with that engine. Follow the fat wires leading back from the plugs. Much may be hidden under the engine shroud which should be easily removable. You could also Google the mower model and/or engine model and see if there are any parts or serive diagrams or instruction videos.


There could be one or two coils. If there is one it will have a lead heading to each plug. Both plugs will fire at the top of each stroke making one meaningless (end of exhaust stroke) - it's called a lost spark ignition. They used to be more common - I don't know about newer engines.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:07 PM   #24
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Well I went to the jd dealership, played my videos for the sales person, he said if there are 2 plugs it has 2 coils, but the right one was barely functional, also said with the choke having to be played with the carburetor needed cleaned
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:12 PM   #25
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Re: My rider just died, help?


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I intended to say 'wouldn't'. My gosh - I just created a 'would vs. wouldn't' moment !!!

IMPEACH lenaitch!! Traitor!!
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenaitch View Post
i intended to say 'wouldn't'. My gosh - i just created a 'would vs. Wouldn't' moment !!!

impeach lenaitch!! Traitor!! [img class=inlineimg]https://www.diychatroom.com/images/smilies/devil.png[/img]
haahahahahahahahaa
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Old 07-22-2018, 05:07 PM   #27
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I haven't attempted to change the right ignition coil yet, but i took the cover off the thing the fuel pump leads to (carburetor? ) and this stuff that smells a little like gas drained out, what is it?
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My rider just died, help?-20180722_172345_1532297134344.jpg   My rider just died, help?-20180722_172330_1532297154643.jpg   My rider just died, help?-20180722_172320_1532297180854.jpg  
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:11 PM   #28
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Re: My rider just died, help?


The pic you shared isn’t the carb. That’s the cylinder head and those are the intake and exhaust valves.. the fluid is a mix of oil with some gas..

Carb cleaning video.. or just empty out the gas tank and put some fresh fuel with carb cleaner.. and run it for a bit if you can and see if that works..people seem to swear by this stuff called SeaFoam..I don’t have any experience with it thou..


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Old 07-24-2018, 08:20 PM   #29
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Well I learned a number of things today,
1:new coils need the mounting area cut a bit, 2:water is heavier than gas, turns out the fuel i used had water in it, that explains why it died like it wasn't getting fuel, it wasn't! Now we need to get a friend to work on the carburetor, my uncle said it will be full of water, i don't have the knowhow, he does but he is mostly paralysed on one side, but at least this problem let us know we needed a new coil, and i got a look at the other coil, it was further away so i adjusted it to match the gap on on the new one, also sanded the rust off the magnet, should get good sparking now (when the water is cleaned out of the carburetor )
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:28 PM   #30
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Re: My rider just died, help?


Just take the bowl off the carb and drain whatever is in there out...put the bowl back on.. fill up the tank with fresh gas and see how it runs.. you can do that..
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