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Old 05-25-2018, 08:32 PM   #1
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Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


I need to bolt down one of those metal Home Depot 10’x12’ gazebos on my patio. The patio is concrete that appears to average about 3.5” thick. I was thinking wedge anchors, but I’m second guessing them due to the thickness of the concrete. I don’t want to crack the concrete.

Now I’m thinking sleeve anchors because I could buy 4” sleeve anchors that would ...... should expand below the underside of the concrete and act almost like a toggle bolt.

This is my first time anchoring to concrete using something other than tapcons. Is there something other than a wedge or sleeve anchor I should be considering?

Other tips / suggestions would be much appreciated.

Also, wanted to say thanks for the years of help I’ve obtained from this site without being a member. I couldn’t find my answer this time so I figured it was about time to sign up and become a member.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:49 PM   #2
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


We used concrete bolts to hold down racking in the warehouse. They should work for your shed.

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Old 05-25-2018, 09:00 PM   #3
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


Large Diameter Tapcon.

Drilled in thousands of those over the years to anchor down grain bins as we constructed them. Very handy, if you ever need to remove what you've anchored you can just back it out then you only have a small hole instead of an anchor to cut off.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:23 PM   #4
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


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Originally Posted by iamrfixit View Post
Large Diameter Tapcon.

Drilled in thousands of those over the years to anchor down grain bins as we constructed them. Very handy, if you ever need to remove what you've anchored you can just back it out then you only have a small hole instead of an anchor to cut off.


Wind has a lot of force and I don’t want this gazebo to end up through my window or blowing down the street; do you think a tapcon has a much holding force as a wedge or sleeve anchor?


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Old 05-25-2018, 09:36 PM   #5
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


We've had a few bins get blown away over the years, straight line winds, tornadoes, etc. Lost four 48' bins (50 anchors each) on a single site, but I've only saw a couple of these anchors that actually got pulled or broke off in the process. It ripped the steel anchor brackets right off the bins.

If the concrete is solid and the hole is the right size these hold very well, pretty much the same requirement of any anchor. Either way the anchor is probably far stronger than the material that the gazebo is made of.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:35 PM   #6
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


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Originally Posted by joed View Post
We used concrete bolts to hold down racking in the warehouse. They should work for your shed.

Attachment 520961
This type anchor in 2000 PSI concrete for a 3/4" Dia. 3.5 inch long tension is 7,655 lbs.
For a sleeve type in 2000 PSI concrete 3/4" Dia. 3 1/4" long tension is 10,460 lbs.

The above info can be found in Power Fasteners Handbook.
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Old 05-26-2018, 07:31 AM   #7
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


Just me, and ALL JMO....

I am a sleeve anchor die hard fan. If one takes the time and compares the anchor designs, they can see why so many people can favor one over the other.

I am not a fan of Tapcons for large wind loads or any screw in concrete type bolts.

Because screw in anchors depend on the integrity of the walls of the bored hole in the concrete to remain stable. To me, many years of a load with any wind shear movement could make a screw in anchor "nibble" slowly away, at the "threaded" concrete hole walls.

A sleeve anchor expansion apron will stay embedded in the side walls of the hole and may eventually pull up some from the "'nibbling" away of the hole effect from the loads movement. But if it does, it can then be re-tightened to bring the expansion apron upwards to bite in to fresh concrete walls.

If a threaded anchor over time, nibbles away its homemade threads from the hole walls, the hole becomes a smooth bore and there is no way to re-tighten it. Unless one removes it and uses epoxy I guess in the hole, and then threads it back in before the epoxy sets up. Not a mess I want to have to re-do. JMO though
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:51 AM   #8
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


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Originally Posted by Gregsoldtruck79 View Post
Just me, and ALL JMO....



I am a sleeve anchor die hard fan. If one takes the time and compares the anchor designs, they can see why so many people can favor one over the other.



I am not a fan of Tapcons for large wind loads or any screw in concrete type bolts.



Because screw in anchors depend on the integrity of the walls of the bored hole in the concrete to remain stable. To me, many years of a load with any wind shear movement could make a screw in anchor "nibble" slowly away, at the "threaded" concrete hole walls.



A sleeve anchor expansion apron will stay embedded in the side walls of the hole and may eventually pull up some from the "'nibbling" away of the hole effect from the loads movement. But if it does, it can then be re-tightened to bring the expansion apron upwards to bite in to fresh concrete walls.



If a threaded anchor over time, nibbles away its homemade threads from the hole walls, the hole becomes a smooth bore and there is no way to re-tighten it. Unless one removes it and uses epoxy I guess in the hole, and then threads it back in before the epoxy sets up. Not a mess I want to have to re-do. JMO though


If I were to go sleeve do you think I should buy anchors 1/2” longer than the concrete depth to let them expand at the base and beyond of the concrete or use sleeve anchors that are the same length and the concrete depth?


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Old 05-26-2018, 10:23 AM   #9
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


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If I were to go sleeve do you think I should buy anchors 1/2” longer than the concrete depth to let them expand at the base and beyond of the concrete or use sleeve anchors that are the same length and the concrete depth?


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No, not longer than the slab is deep. If you did that, they would have to pull out a bit before they grabbed, and that wouldn't be good. Make sure you clean the hole out well before you insert the anchor.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:30 AM   #10
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


Sleeve anchor Performance Data indicates that the testing was in Concrete not through the Concrete.
They do make a Hollow -Set Dropin up to 5/8" but the overall length is 2" and is designed for anchoring in hollow base materials. Performance Data indicates that the Tension lbs is a little less than the Sleeve anchor.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:38 AM   #11
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakerex View Post
If I were to go sleeve do you think I should buy anchors 1/2” longer than the concrete depth to let them expand at the base and beyond of the concrete or use sleeve anchors that are the same length and the concrete depth?


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I would not, as the bottom of the slab is not flat. It will be rocky and have small "pockets" in it. Which will mean as you tighten up the bolt the expansion anchor spreading "apron"may literally get twisted sideways on a rock sticking out...weakening its strength.

If you have a 3.5 - 4 in. deep slab, then a sleeve bolt drilled to max of 3 in. depth should be fine . If you are using 1/2 diameter sleeve anchor bolts, and if a wind shear gets under it ? The gazebo and its parts will end up in the next field over, before the anchors pull up. JMO though
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Last edited by Gregsoldtruck79; 05-26-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:34 PM   #12
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


sleeve OR wedge,,, either will have the pullout strength you need,,, do NOT drill thru the slab - just to the depth you need,,, strong enough wind will tear the structure off & the anchors will still be there
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:14 PM   #13
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


So with 3.5? concrete, I?d want 3? anchors?


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Old 05-27-2018, 01:32 PM   #14
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


2 1/2"
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:02 PM   #15
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Re: Wedge, Sleeve, or another type of anchor?


And how many anchors per leg. They’re 4x4 light gauge steel legs. I read that it’s no good to install wedge or sleeve anchors close together. From what I read it looks like I should use one per leg.....thoughts?


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