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Old 02-07-2019, 06:29 AM   #16
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they really didn't grade it very much. It might be a half of an inch at most. At one point it actually grades back towards the side door from the front of the garage. They were not very consistent. On top of that the slab that they put in for the side entry door is connected to the garage floor slab. It was all one pour. And they didn't grade that away from me garage and it's also at the same level. So I do get a little bit of water coming in around that door point
That pad outside should have been 2" lower and with a door threshold to step over you never notice the 2 inches.
You slab inside will likely move all over the place with different settling rates and decomposition as well as changing water content below.
yeah I know. They screwed me over real good. I tried to put a silicone around the outside of the door sill and it worked for about a week and then water managed to make its way under it again. As far as the slab goes what do you think of this sealer? https://allgaragefloors.com/silicona...rating-sealer/
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:43 AM   #17
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


Concrete sealers don't do much for protecting the slab from water underneath, they are more about protecting the concrete on the top. The threshold should be removed and caulked underneath.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:24 AM   #18
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


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yeah I know. They screwed me over real good. I tried to put a silicone around the outside of the door sill and it worked for about a week and then water managed to make its way under it again. As far as the slab goes what do you think of this sealer? https://allgaragefloors.com/silicona...rating-sealer/
Nothing on top of the slab will do anything save your money and live with what you have. If you can pull the door and raise it 1 1/2 inches you may have a change of sealing around that.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:46 AM   #19
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


May not be a leak at all and usually isn't. If you placed a rubber back throw shop rug in another area in close proximity to an outside wall it would probably have moisture under it as well, especially early morning. Check the surface temperature and compare with the morning weather report for your area.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:46 PM   #20
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


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No vapor barrier. They have a control joint down the center of the garage floor. But it's going in the opposite direction. That crack is all the way up in the front by where the driveway meets the slab. There's also an expansion joint between the slab and the frost wall.


The control joints should be in both directions, length and width so you would have 4 quarters .
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:24 PM   #21
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


I think at this point, the best thing you can do is make sure run off water is kept away from the building as much as possible. Gutters in place with long laterals. Back fill and slope away from the building. A stem wall would have nice here, but that ship has sailed. Plant grass when you can.
And that side step was just bad planning around. It probably was level when they poured it. But with frost heave and one edge attached to the main slab.........well you see the result. It will just get worse with each passing winter. Leaving it in place with water running back to the door, it will just be a matter of time before the door framing rots. I see no choice but to have it cut out. Either put in a lower step or maybe a few paver stones. But even no step is better than what you have.


Also, its not too late to cut more control joints.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:26 PM   #22
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


At least they cut a control joint at the slab, you may get lucky and it will break away from the slab there, to late for more control joints as the need to be cut no later than 24 hours, some say 18 hrs.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:32 AM   #23
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


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too late for more control joints as the need to be cut no later than 24 hours, some say 18 hrs.

Canarywood, Seems like a control joint cut in late is better than none at all. Or is the recommendation to cut early, because it will cut easier? In either case, aren't you weakening the joint by about 25%? Or maybe the recommendation is to cut quick, because cracking could start quick?
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:33 AM   #24
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Here's a photo of how they trenched it and left the center. And this is just when they were pouring the footing. They then put the frost wall on top of that. But the center remained. It was a poured Frost wall
Looking at that pic, it appears the lot has a slope and goes slightly uphill on one side of the garage. If that’s the case the problem is evident. Clay has poor permeability as we all know. What end up happening is water from uphill collects in the less dense area around the footings then keeps rising all the way up past gravel underneath the slab.

You have a freaking basin underneath that slab. If you are in a cold climate where things freeze and thaw in the winter, 10 years down the road that whole concrete slab and top part of the walls will be completely destroyed. No vapor barrier would had helped, no sealer/sealant would help.

You need to get rid of that water by digging a drain off trench along the wall of the garage on the side where elevation is higher. About 2ft from the wall and to the depth of the footing. Then channel that water down the slope on one end.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:34 AM   #25
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


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Canarywood, Seems like a control joint cut in late is better than none at all. Or is the recommendation to cut early, because it will cut easier? In either case, aren't you weakening the joint by about 25%? Or maybe the recommendation is to cut quick, because cracking could start quick?


Because cracking starts after that time period.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:37 AM   #26
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Here's a photo of how they trenched it and left the center. And this is just when they were pouring the footing. They then put the frost wall on top of that. But the center remained. It was a poured Frost wall
Looking at that pic, it appears the lot has a slope and goes slightly uphill on one side of the garage. If that’s the case the problem is evident. Clay has poor permeability as we all know. What end up happening is water from uphill collects in the less dense area around the footings then keeps rising all the way up past gravel underneath the slab.

You have a freaking basin underneath that slab. If you are in a cold climate where things freeze and thaw in the winter, 10 years down the road that whole concrete slab and top part of the walls will be completely destroyed. No vapor barrier would had helped, no sealer/sealant would help.

You need to get rid of that water by digging a drain off trench along the wall of the garage on the side where elevation is higher. About 2ft from the wall and to the depth of the footing. Then channel that water down the slope on one end.
A couple of questions... If I dig down to the bottom of the footing I'll be going about 4 feet down. Where am I channeling the water to? I mean it's going to go to some other part of the yard and also about 4 ft down and just end up back in the same place won't it? I looked into putting a dry well into the backyard but the companies that came said because of the clay it'll only retain water and be a waste of money. Also, the house is on the same land and the footings for that are even lower. Wouldn't I see the effects of the water on the house foundation as well?
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #27
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Canarywood, Seems like a control joint cut in late is better than none at all. Or is the recommendation to cut early, because it will cut easier? In either case, aren't you weakening the joint by about 25%? Or maybe the recommendation is to cut quick, because cracking could start quick?

Because cracking starts after that time period.
This is what I'm now trying to figure out. Seems like there's some conflicting thoughts on whether you can cut a control joint now. If it should have been done in quarters than it was not done correctly. And the crack is right around the center point where the other control joint should have been cut. I don't want to ruin the slab by cutting something into it that will create another problem
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:30 PM   #28
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Here's a photo of how they trenched it and left the center. And this is just when they were pouring the footing. They then put the frost wall on top of that. But the center remained. It was a poured Frost wall
Looking at that pic, it appears the lot has a slope and goes slightly uphill on one side of the garage. If that’s the case the problem is evident. Clay has poor permeability as we all know. What end up happening is water from uphill collects in the less dense area around the footings then keeps rising all the way up past gravel underneath the slab.

You have a freaking basin underneath that slab. If you are in a cold climate where things freeze and thaw in the winter, 10 years down the road that whole concrete slab and top part of the walls will be completely destroyed. No vapor barrier would had helped, no sealer/sealant would help.

You need to get rid of that water by digging a drain off trench along the wall of the garage on the side where elevation is higher. About 2ft from the wall and to the depth of the footing. Then channel that water down the slope on one end.
A couple of questions... If I dig down to the bottom of the footing I'll be going about 4 feet down. Where am I channeling the water to? I mean it's going to go to some other part of the yard and also about 4 ft down and just end up back in the same place won't it? I looked into putting a dry well into the backyard but the companies that came said because of the clay it'll only retain water and be a waste of money. Also, the house is on the same land and the footings for that are even lower. Wouldn't I see the effects of the water on the house foundation as well?
My bad, 4 feet down will be excessive. I forgot it’s a frost resistant wall. First, let’s recall why people put gravel under a slab. That’s to cut off a capillary action, so that slab remains dry. Therefor, it will be sufficient to have a trench (you can fill it with gravel or sand later to look nicer) such that the bottom is couple of inches below the level where the native soil and gravel meet under the slab. Iirc you have 4” slab and 4” gravel, so that’s 10” below the top of the slab. Sorry, using phone to reply, can’t easily see dimensions you had mentioned. Now, with that shallow trench do you have any slope left to run the water off?

The reason you don’t see issues in your house is because it’s warm. Footing standing in the water is not a problem since concrete is not afraid of water. Let that house stand cold and unattended for one winter and there will definitely be basement slab and possibly wall cracks.
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Old 02-09-2019, 02:26 PM   #29
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


control jnts need to be cut asap to control random cracking which's why someone invented the early-cut green saw - 'soff-cut',,, cutting early also means cut doesn't have to be as deep,,, conc crks from the btm upwards & it will find the weakened plane (initial cut),,, spec is usually t/4 (depth of initial (control) cut = 25% of thickness),,, another advantage is nobody stays 'ti its time to saw or makes special trip the next day to saw
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:33 PM   #30
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Re: New concrete garage floor cracking and moisture


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I didn't know that they should have done it any different. Or what the standard is.
I actually get pissed off when I see this happen. RetroJoe spends his hard earned cash and some fly by night contractor screws him over.

For most jurisdictions... there is no "standard" when it comes to concrete flat work.

No requirement for:
  • an on site soil analysis,
  • drainage assessment for the lot and building location,
  • minimum footer concrete mix strength,
  • footer sub grade compaction testing,
  • vapor barrier,
  • slab sub-grade compaction testing,
  • concrete slab concrete mix strength,
  • reinforcing steel type and size in the concrete,
  • control joint placement time frame and layout,
  • etc.

Here's the deal. The top soil that contains organic materials (such as roots) needed to be removed. Since it wasn't those organic materials will rot, leaving voids. Those voids lead to settling after the slab is poured.

Any fill material that was added should have been proper fill materials (again, nor organic compounds and fill that locks in place), and it needs to be subsequently compacted. If the fill depth exceeds 4 inches, each 4 inches needs compacted before more fill is added. If it isn't, then it too will settle after the slab is poured.

Your slab is destined to have a lot more cracking issues, and since there was no wire mesh or reinforcement in the slab those little cracks will likely separate and become wider cracks, and likely become offset, (little steps).

Any idea if they used fiber mesh in the concrete mix?

If you are still curious.. check out this link and read some of the articles. To late for this project, but it will provide valuable information for future projects:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=326215

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=353845

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=346747
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Last edited by HenryMac; 02-09-2019 at 03:39 PM.
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