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Old 06-26-2017, 07:35 PM   #1
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concrete expansion joint question/opinion


28 days ago we had a new patio and walkway put in..the concrete was colored and additional color was added to the top and then stamped..Looked great until they cut the expansion joints..The cut had a lot of chips and spalling where you noticed the grey underlying cement..Called the contractor to come back and in the meantime went down to a local company 'Concrete Assesories' and they suggested I stain the areas along the cut to match the concert color. Had the contractor come back and do it..Looked great..but..when he went to apply the expansion joint sealer it didnt look right mainly because the color was off and because it was bleeding out of the crack and over onto the top of the colored concrete. Just seems to be going from bad to worse..I asked him why he didn't tape off the lines to prevent it. That's when..'he said', okay I can do that..thats when I said stop lets get the right color and then you can finish off my patio..Her'e som pictures and any advice on how to go forward with this would be greatly appreciated..I have two immediate questions. Will taping prevent the expansion joint sealer from spreading? 2. Will the chipped sides and spalling get worse over time? thanks for any input.
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:24 PM   #2
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


Well, first, it is not an "expansion" joint, but a "control" joint and he must have used an SDS hammer to create it. Very sloppy. The control joint should have been put in and sealed prior to any stamping and staining. Did he say why he waited until the end to botch up an otherwise nice job??
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:10 PM   #3
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No he didn't
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:05 AM   #4
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


There's no repairing that.

Only tear out and replace, or learn to live with it.



You might try some seal the right color, to disguise that mess.

Was this the low bidder on the job?


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Old 06-27-2017, 11:18 PM   #5
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


A couple quick thoughts:

- If the concrete was colored, you wouldn't see any grey underneath the spalling. Unless they simply broadcast color hardener on the surface after it was poured?

- When concrete starts chipping (ravelling) like that, it's time to turn the saw off and try later. In some cases, it ravell's bad when you wait too long as well.

- Why on Earth would they place control joints a mere inch off of the grout lines in the pattern? Are they blind or just really dumb? So much easier to hide when they fall on grout lines.

This is one of the few areas where "Zipstrips" are favorable IMPO, along with adequate re-enforcement to keep the hairline cracks small.

Your first picture of the texture looks OK, but the rest of the pictures look like a pretty shoddy job to me, sorry to say. Good luck.
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:12 AM   #6
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


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Originally Posted by chandler48 View Post
Well, first, it is not an "expansion" joint, but a "control" joint and he must have used an SDS hammer to create it. Very sloppy. The control joint should have been put in and sealed prior to any stamping and staining. Did he say why he waited until the end to botch up an otherwise nice job??
no..but he offered to repair it but I'm concerned it will only look worse..thanks for your input
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:18 AM   #7
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


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Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
There's no repairing that.

Only tear out and replace, or learn to live with it.



You might try some seal the right color, to disguise that mess.

Was this the low bidder on the job?


ED
thats what I figured..I have to live with it as a Pergola has been built on top of it..I spoke to Sika and they have a product that can be colored to match the cement color close enough unfortunately our 115 degree temps are prohibiting doing anything at this time with it. No he wasnt the lowest bidder they were all about the same. thanks for you input..
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:36 AM   #8
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
A couple quick thoughts:

- If the concrete was colored, you wouldn't see any grey underneath the spalling. Unless they simply broadcast color hardener on the surface after it was poured?

- When concrete starts chipping (ravelling) like that, it's time to turn the saw off and try later. In some cases, it ravell's bad when you wait too long as well.

- Why on Earth would they place control joints a mere inch off of the grout lines in the pattern? Are they blind or just really dumb? So much easier to hide when they fall on grout lines.

This is one of the few areas where "Zipstrips" are favorable IMPO, along with adequate re-enforcement to keep the hairline cracks small.

Your first picture of the texture looks OK, but the rest of the pictures look like a pretty shoddy job to me, sorry to say. Good luck.
They did color the cement in the mixer and then broadcast the second color on top. I can't imagine why he didn't stop sawing..as for the grout lines I was wondering the same thing..The first picture was taken in a shaded area and the others were in the sun.. The patio color and texture is similar to the first photo..Other than the chipping and spalling from the saw cut the patio looked okay..My worry is once the patio furniture is placed on it that the chair legs will get stuck in the spalled areas and make them worse over time..Thanks for your input and suggestion..
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:04 PM   #9
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


I see your located in Las Vegas, what was the temp when it was poured?
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:33 PM   #10
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


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I see your located in Las Vegas, what was the temp when it was poured?
poured at 6a..temp 70 degrees..daytime high 96..finished at 2:30p
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:26 PM   #11
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


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poured at 6a..temp 70 degrees..daytime high 96..finished at 2:30p
If the saw cuts were made within that timeframe, i don't think that should have happened, at those temps they suggest you cut within 6- 12 hrs., unless it was an inexperienced operator.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:21 PM   #12
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Re: concrete expansion joint question/opinion


That would be a tear-out and re-do if I was running the job.
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