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Old 04-04-2018, 02:19 PM   #1
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Bracing Concrete


I am preparing to pour a patio with a 12 inch deep footer around the outside edge. I am using a 2X12 to frame it, but I am trying to determine:

1. How deep do the stakes need to go into the ground
2. Would 2X4 stakes every foot suffice
3. Do I need kickers to make sure the stakes don't move

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:44 PM   #2
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Re: Bracing Concrete


every 2' should suffice,,, depth depends on soil density,,, probably no kickers
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:02 PM   #3
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Re: Bracing Concrete


1. All depends on the soil, clay 6/8 inches should do it.
2. 2x2 every 3 feet would be easier to drive in clay.
3. Again it all depends on the soil, but better safe than sorry.
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:06 PM   #4
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Re: Bracing Concrete


First, since you have dug out for a concrete pour I feel sure you know there are no utilities buried, where the stakes are being driven. As Stadry said, two ft. centers are fine.

Just use a 10 or 12 pound sledge to drive them and when they stop driving easily... stop. I always cut my stakes long and once they are nailed to the form board with two headed form nails, I cut them off flush with the top of the form board. Finisher's HATE troweling around stakes sticking up.

Once the stake feels solid, take the hammer and bump the top of the stake outwards from the form board a little, if the hammer does not bounce back some or the stake falls outward, keep driving the stake down until you hear an Asian language coming out of the ground.

The only thing worse to me than losing a 10 million dollar winning lottery ticket, is a concrete form blowing out in the middle of a concrete pour.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:22 AM   #5
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Re: Bracing Concrete


@stadry - Thanks! It's clay, so I am not sure about the density.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:25 AM   #6
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Re: Bracing Concrete


@Canarywood1 - Thanks! I am not worried about the difficulty in placing the stakes. I would much rather put in a little extra effort on the front end than have my forms fail. My concern with the pour is that it is on un-level ground. The highest point is about 11 inches above the grade. Since our code calls for at least four inches under grade, some places will be 15 inches deep. From what I understand, concrete is heavy.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:26 AM   #7
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Re: Bracing Concrete


@Gregsoldtruck79 - Thanks for the advice on driving the stakes and making sure they are secure. I want to make sure we get it right on the first try!
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:43 AM   #8
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Re: Bracing Concrete


Quote:
Originally Posted by nlmdej View Post
@Canarywood1 - Thanks! I am not worried about the difficulty in placing the stakes. I would much rather put in a little extra effort on the front end than have my forms fail. My concern with the pour is that it is on un-level ground. The highest point is about 11 inches above the grade. Since our code calls for at least four inches under grade, some places will be 15 inches deep. From what I understand, concrete is heavy.
Your right it's heavy, 4000lbs. per yard.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:48 AM   #9
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Re: Bracing Concrete


something i rarely consider unless its a wall,,, woody, any idea of the lateral pressure of his conc ? just a wag - less than 200#sf on initial placement ? just curious
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:48 AM   #10
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Re: Bracing Concrete


Based on your questions I sure hope that you'll have someone with experience on hand when it comes time to pour the patio itself.

Placing an unseen footing is a great place to start your journey into DIY concrete, finishing a slab, not so much.

Good luck with the project.

Btw....cut a clean hole and forms for the footing may not even be needed.
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:26 AM   #11
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Re: Bracing Concrete


Quote:
Originally Posted by stadry View Post
something i rarely consider unless its a wall,,, woody, any idea of the lateral pressure of his conc ? just a wag - less than 200#sf on initial placement ? just curious

Depending on the placement rate and setting characteristics of the concrete, the lateral pressure can be equal to a full liquid head, To compute the full fluid pressure, multiply the concrete height by the unit weight of the fresh concrete [150 pounds per cubic foot , in other words if the wall is 10' high the full fluid pressure would be 1,500lbs.per square foot


oops i see your asking for the pressure on HIS concrete, it would be 150 lbs

Last edited by Canarywood1; 04-06-2018 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:53 AM   #12
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Re: Bracing Concrete


didn't think it was significant,,, we rarely stake less than 3' but that's d/w & sidewalk work
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:07 PM   #13
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Re: Bracing Concrete


@kwikfishron - I am going to have someone help me pour who has some experience, I just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. The individual helping me indicated for such a tall pour, I would need angle bracing, but I haven't been able to find any information on it.

As far as the clean hole is concerned, this is going to be a monolithic pour, and the outside perimeter has to be at least 12 inches thick. Since it is uneven ground, there are places where it is only 4 inches above grade and others that are 11 inches above grade. If I could get rid of forms, I would.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:31 PM   #14
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Re: Bracing Concrete


Make sure the stakes are in contact with the 2x12 at the bottom. That is where the greater force will be.

Yes I learned that one, twice, the hard way
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:36 PM   #15
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Re: Bracing Concrete


35 years in the business, and NEVER saw a footing blow out, walls yes.
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