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Old 08-10-2019, 09:42 AM   #1
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Removing double door installing sliding door


So im in the process of building a deck but discovered the rim plate on house is rotten because of leaky old door. So im looking to take out my old double door with a rough opening of 76" and its 2x6 construction and installing a sliding patio door thats made for 2x4 construction and its only 70 3/4 wide and i think with the brick mold that adds 3 more inches. Im assuming i would add in another stud or two but how would i seal up the outside and i would be a few inches away from my j-trim.

Also inside the house what would i do with the sill gap to the old flooring? Thanks in advance for your help!
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Old Yesterday, 07:58 AM   #2
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


SGD are going to be 71" wide usually where as the swing door is going to be 73.5". You can pad in the opening with some 1x4, run a larger casing on the drywall, and trim out the exterior. Gap between the finished floor and door is usually covered with a shoe or 1/4 round molding.
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Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM   #3
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


I install windows and doors as part of my business. I have taken OUT more sliders than I have installed. Most folks just don't like them. Unless you buy a higher end door, they can develop leaks over time.

Not wanting to dissuade you from your quest, but have you considered a double OUT swing door unit? It would fit in the same hole and you wouldn't have to do all the trimming, etc. They don't tend to leak as much as inswing units do and the water is sheeted off the door rather than hitting the threshold, like in an inswing.
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Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM   #4
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


The problem is usually the missing door pan and either type will need one.
the slider may also be shorter in height too by 1 1/2"
That door might have done better if it had the flashing above it.
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Old Today, 12:27 AM   #5
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


I'd prefer doors as well since they give tighter air seal. Slide doors have hairy kind of air seal which is bit less than adequate.
Doors with treated jamb, if available would be best, since all of the parts can be under the weather, not just the bottoms. Corner joints should be caulked, even if they were at the factory. Stops and any trims over the jambs should be caulked and painted again. Look at the construction and caulk everything you see that could possibly let the water in. Check the weather seals and make sure they are tight.
Slider doors are better for draining. Don't use the slide door that uses U groove tracks. Tracks trap water. Assume drain holes will not work. I think all of them have sloped sill with raised fins. Wheels in the doors ride on the fins. When assembling the slide door frame, caulk the corner joints. Don't rely on foam seals or such that come from the factory.


Your wall is already sided with vinyl. That makes the fix more complicated. I would remove the side light and remove the siding and the channels around the door. Number the siding and make location record for easy reinstall. Vinyl is installed, even by the best people, with leaks in mind. As such, flashing under the openings are supposed to take up the water proofing duty. I've been thinking for some time how to make the vinyl water proof, but there are some tricky parts. The channels are the biggest problems. Esp the head channel which is upside down and traps a lot of water. This is supposed to drain to the side and over the side channels but the connections are not water proof. Esp sloppy chaanel connections let a lot of water through the connection. Therefore, before the channels are even installed, you must have flashing against the wood frame.


Image shows a first step. Repair the damages to wood frame. Then,


1. sheet metal flashing around the frame. With about 4" overlapping the foundation also. Overlap each layer 4" and horizontal overlaps 6". Nail them tight to the sheathing. You can staple them as well. You can play with it. Flashing can butt to the frame edge. It can be cut bigger than the opening and bent inwards for bit more flashing.


2. cover the sheetmetal with grace ice shield. Use the one without the granule. Ice shield separates the metal from pressure treated deck lumbers.


3. install the pan. Pan is the last in the defense line for this area, so pan must overlap any siding or trim in this area. Make the pan wide enough for any material. Example, if you want to cover the step with siding, install the channel first and keep the length longer and loose you can trim it later. Then the pan goes over the channel. This way, if any water does into the pan, it will drain to daylight.


4. stick flashing around the corners and overlapping the pan. Any water along the side drains into the pan and then to daylight. Check videos on how doors and windows are flashed.
Check the videos on how header is flashed to the window/door and weather sheets (such as tyvek) are incorporated to the flashing. You will be adding new sheets. Cut away the old sheets during the work and add new sheets. For stick flashing the corners, search and get the best you can. Or use eternabond tape.


5. once the door and the trim are installed, add drip edge over the trim. I think yours is missing the drip edge. Bend the drip edge so it is installed slightly sloped.



6. when installing the vinyl channels, make sure the corners are fairly tight. Caulk the side of the trim where the channel will butt into. I plan to tape the channel joints. Not sure yet outside or inside. I think practice will tell.
Head channel should be slighted bowed up in the middle for drainage. Side channel should be left long to the deck and not end where the door sill is. Don't try to picture frame the opening with the channel.


BTW, grace ice shield is butyl adhesive. This may be incompatible with plastics or adhesives of other stick flashings. I use ice shield because it's cheap but if you use other materials, search for material compatibility. Ice shield is fine with vinyl siding as far as I know.
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Old Today, 09:50 AM   #6
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


You'll forgive me if I disagree fellas.



The air infiltration rates that we have on our sliders far outperforms that of just about every normal swing door.



The idea that sliders are "cheap" is a bit out dated.
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Old Today, 04:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carpdad View Post
I'd prefer doors as well since they give tighter air seal. Slide doors have hairy kind of air seal which is bit less than adequate.
Doors with treated jamb, if available would be best, since all of the parts can be under the weather, not just the bottoms. Corner joints should be caulked, even if they were at the factory. Stops and any trims over the jambs should be caulked and painted again. Look at the construction and caulk everything you see that could possibly let the water in. Check the weather seals and make sure they are tight.
Slider doors are better for draining. Don't use the slide door that uses U groove tracks. Tracks trap water. Assume drain holes will not work. I think all of them have sloped sill with raised fins. Wheels in the doors ride on the fins. When assembling the slide door frame, caulk the corner joints. Don't rely on foam seals or such that come from the factory.


Your wall is already sided with vinyl. That makes the fix more complicated. I would remove the side light and remove the siding and the channels around the door. Number the siding and make location record for easy reinstall. Vinyl is installed, even by the best people, with leaks in mind. As such, flashing under the openings are supposed to take up the water proofing duty. I've been thinking for some time how to make the vinyl water proof, but there are some tricky parts. The channels are the biggest problems. Esp the head channel which is upside down and traps a lot of water. This is supposed to drain to the side and over the side channels but the connections are not water proof. Esp sloppy chaanel connections let a lot of water through the connection. Therefore, before the channels are even installed, you must have flashing against the wood frame.


Image shows a first step. Repair the damages to wood frame. Then,


1. sheet metal flashing around the frame. With about 4" overlapping the foundation also. Overlap each layer 4" and horizontal overlaps 6". Nail them tight to the sheathing. You can staple them as well. You can play with it. Flashing can butt to the frame edge. It can be cut bigger than the opening and bent inwards for bit more flashing.


2. cover the sheetmetal with grace ice shield. Use the one without the granule. Ice shield separates the metal from pressure treated deck lumbers.


3. install the pan. Pan is the last in the defense line for this area, so pan must overlap any siding or trim in this area. Make the pan wide enough for any material. Example, if you want to cover the step with siding, install the channel first and keep the length longer and loose you can trim it later. Then the pan goes over the channel. This way, if any water does into the pan, it will drain to daylight.


4. stick flashing around the corners and overlapping the pan. Any water along the side drains into the pan and then to daylight. Check videos on how doors and windows are flashed.
Check the videos on how header is flashed to the window/door and weather sheets (such as tyvek) are incorporated to the flashing. You will be adding new sheets. Cut away the old sheets during the work and add new sheets. For stick flashing the corners, search and get the best you can. Or use eternabond tape.


5. once the door and the trim are installed, add drip edge over the trim. I think yours is missing the drip edge. Bend the drip edge so it is installed slightly sloped.



6. when installing the vinyl channels, make sure the corners are fairly tight. Caulk the side of the trim where the channel will butt into. I plan to tape the channel joints. Not sure yet outside or inside. I think practice will tell.
Head channel should be slighted bowed up in the middle for drainage. Side channel should be left long to the deck and not end where the door sill is. Don't try to picture frame the opening with the channel.


BTW, grace ice shield is butyl adhesive. This may be incompatible with plastics or adhesives of other stick flashings. I use ice shield because it's cheap but if you use other materials, search for material compatibility. Ice shield is fine with vinyl siding as far as I know.

Thanks for the explanation.
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Old Today, 05:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windows on Wash View Post
You'll forgive me if I disagree fellas.



The air infiltration rates that we have on our sliders far outperforms that of just about every normal swing door.



The idea that sliders are "cheap" is a bit out dated.
Do you know what depth of a sill pan i wpuld need for a sliding door?
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Old Today, 07:26 PM   #9
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


Quote:
The idea that sliders are "cheap" is a bit out dated.
That's why I qualified my statement in Post 3. Many folks like to save money, and doors is one way to get over the sticker shock and go with lesser expensive doors. Agreed, Andersen and the old Peachtree's had excellent seals that interlocked.

I still stand beside the outswing door set up due to the large amount of modification the OP will have to do to make a slider fit.
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Old Today, 09:47 PM   #10
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Re: Removing double door installing sliding door


Sliders are usually smaller (71" standard vs. 73.5" for a swing) so its more about padding in the opening.
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