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Old 01-08-2020, 08:09 PM   #16
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckelley617 View Post
Update:

I removed all of the exposed insulation and bleach washed the affected area and then did a second bleach soak and air dry. Thankfully I caught the issue early and the mold was only spotty. I plan to leave the stud bays empty and until I am ready to hang drywall and just insulate as I go.

I can't help but think of all the new construction homes that sit insulated for weeks or months while waiting for drywall guys to do their part. YIKES....
Maybe home owner builds. Production builders are in a hurry after they get the framing inspection passed.
Bleach is good for hard surfaces not so much for porous surfaces, if mold shows up again, there is a better product to use but the name has slipped my mind right now.
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Old 01-09-2020, 06:24 AM   #17
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Concrobium?
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:41 AM   #18
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
I have never seen rock wool with paper, so I don't know. Paper faced fiberglass is few and far between here because code calls for a barrier.
You've lost me.
Are you saying the paper on fiberglass is not a barrier but rock wool is a barrier without paper is the barrier in itself?
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:55 AM   #19
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


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You've lost me.
Are you saying the paper on fiberglass is not a barrier but rock wool is a barrier without paper is the barrier in itself?

If they make rock wool with paper I have not seen it. All our house have to have 6 mil poly vapour barrier so paper is not needed. I think some of the box stores sell paper faced FG but the lumber yards don't.
It is pretty safe to say we don't have air leaks.

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Old 01-09-2020, 08:15 AM   #20
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


I'll try to find a vid of that 6 mil install. I'm seeing that as a fiasco more times than not.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:03 AM   #21
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


@Ckelley617 :
"I can't help but think of all the new construction homes that sit insulated for weeks or months while waiting for drywall guys to do their part. YIKES.... "
One difference might be the type of heat. Yours is a remodel and probably sharing the heat from the house which would have a lot more moisture. A garage will often have the condensation behind the insulation without a finished air barrier due to snow and moisture from vehicles.

Leaving the stud bays open will help but you will still need to keep the inside surface above the dew point where condensation will occur. Closets that have no heat will often form mold in the back corners.
@Nealtw "It is pretty safe to say we don't have air leaks." The drywall is your air barrier but I know you don't want to hear that. This link may help, the author originated in Canada.
https://www.buildingscience.com/docu...vapor-barriers

Bud
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:52 AM   #22
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


@Bud9051


How many times have you asked me to read material, I have and I do, what i find in some of those write ups leads to me too think you only read the lines you like.

We have basements we live in and walls that don't leak. I understand that you don't believe that and I am sure that you have seen failures.



The argument isn't whether drywall is a barrier or not. The argument is what you do about the holes in that barrier. We have agreed about sealing the ceiling from the attic, this is never a problem here with a house less than about 20 years, because that is inspected before the drywall goes up. We were having problems around the windows but in 2006 we went to rainscreening, before that they wanted air holes in the sheeting and lot's of people were like Building Science and blamed the barrier.

So if you could be so kind to explain how you seal all the holes in drywall around all the stuff that might go thru the drywall or even thru the wall, while you are telling me the sky is not blue.



This what a sealed ceiling looks like here.

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Old 01-09-2020, 08:29 PM   #23
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Maybe home owner builds. Production builders are in a hurry after they get the framing inspection passed.
Bleach is good for hard surfaces not so much for porous surfaces, if mold shows up again, there is a better product to use but the name has slipped my mind right now.

I would say you could find mold inside 90% of homes' walls. It would be impossible to say otherwise. Knowing what I know now, I would have used plywood and felt to wrap my house because of the drying potential.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:40 PM   #24
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckelley617 View Post
Update:

I removed all of the exposed insulation and bleach washed the affected area and then did a second bleach soak and air dry. Thankfully I caught the issue early and the mold was only spotty. I plan to leave the stud bays empty and until I am ready to hang drywall and just insulate as I go.

I can't help but think of all the new construction homes that sit insulated for weeks or months while waiting for drywall guys to do their part. YIKES....

You are most likely fine. It is hard to resist that urge to rip it all out and start fresh. You wont get the return on your investment if you do that.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:30 PM   #25
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
@Bud9051


How many times have you asked me to read material, I have and I do, what i find in some of those write ups leads to me too think you only read the lines you like.

We have basements we live in and walls that don't leak. I understand that you don't believe that and I am sure that you have seen failures.



The argument isn't whether drywall is a barrier or not. The argument is what you do about the holes in that barrier. We have agreed about sealing the ceiling from the attic, this is never a problem here with a house less than about 20 years, because that is inspected before the drywall goes up. We were having problems around the windows but in 2006 we went to rainscreening, before that they wanted air holes in the sheeting and lot's of people were like Building Science and blamed the barrier.

So if you could be so kind to explain how you seal all the holes in drywall around all the stuff that might go thru the drywall or even thru the wall, while you are telling me the sky is not blue.



This what a sealed ceiling looks like here.

Sorry Neal, but when I post links like Building Science it is because they have tone of experience and lots of education. You hang your hat on anecdotal information based upon where you live. These experts provide high quality advice that will perform at a higher level of quality.

Not going to argue with you, send your objections to building science corp and let them battle you.

Post what you want, I'll respond to the op. not you.

Bud
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:16 AM   #26
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by APA View Post
I would say you could find mold inside 90% of homes' walls. It would be impossible to say otherwise. Knowing what I know now, I would have used plywood and felt to wrap my house because of the drying potential.
Mold is everywhere, that is why you don't want to feed it with moisture from the house and keep the cold out. Sealing the wall dosen't matter if you leave gaps in the insulation,then cold will get to the back of the drywall and you will have moisture and mold inside the room on the drywall.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:33 AM   #27
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
Sorry Neal, but when I post links like Building Science it is because they have tone of experience and lots of education. You hang your hat on anecdotal information based upon where you live. These experts provide high quality advice that will perform at a higher level of quality.

Not going to argue with you, send your objections to building science corp and let them battle you.

Post what you want, I'll respond to the op. not you.

Bud
Then stop telling me to read things, and quit calling me when your experience is failure when the barrier was not done completely.

If drywall is all you need why do we need to air seal an attic side of the ceiling
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:57 PM   #28
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Re: Mold between insulation and sheathing during remodel


The only type of loose fill style insulation that works well without a vapor barrier or thermal break on outside is dense pack cellulose retrofitted into existing above grade exterior walls.

("thermal break" stops surfaces from getting cold enough to have condensation in the first place)

The dense pack stops enough air movement for moisture to not be a problem - whatever moisture gets into the wall can get it, there has to be drying potential on both sides.

Stopping the air from moving through the wall and hitting cold surface is a must when using batts in a cold climate, above grade.

Air/vapour barriers are not perfect - they work okay above grade because of the drying potential to the outside. House-wrap has drying potential.

Quote:
Then stop telling me to read things, and quit calling me when your experience is failure when the barrier was not done completely.

If drywall is all you need why do we need to air seal an attic side of the ceiling
Drywall doesn't do a very good job of air sealing especially when you have electrical penetrations and it doesn't extend all the way to the floor

Still helps a great deal and can be enough to stop mold.

But the key is to stop the air movement, "vapour barrier" properties of materials are not important, it's the "air barrier" properties that really matter.
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