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Old 01-12-2018, 12:40 PM   #31
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


If the basement window/s are important then you might consider new double pane, but most I see they just add a layer of plastic or cover them with a piece of rigid foam board.

Keep working on the moisture. After the rim is insulated and sealed you can consider a layer of rigid insulation against the brick foundation. In terms of importance it is the foundation area that is above grade (plus a foot or so) where most heat is lost through those walls. The rigid foam in both the rim and foundation area can be glued in place. The foam for the rim can be cur " short all the way around, leaves an easy gap for the can foam to fill and seal. You can cut it tight if you are good J.

Against the foundation walls, depending upon the adhesive you use, you would need to hold the rigid in place until the glue is secure. I chose to add a 2x4 at the 4'down mark and I rest my 4x8 panels on that and brace them with a board or two from above. I'm using 1" rigid with foil on both sides. It is a Dow foam board but not their Thermax which is the only one rated to be left exposed. Another long topic that we can go over after the Bilco is closed off with a new door and the rim is insulated.

The 2" rigid you mentioned may need to be covered (drywall or other) to meet fire codes but that can be added later.

Bud
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:05 PM   #32
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
Also please note: I do have moisture issues in my basement. Over the years I have taken steps to improve this on the exterior of my home and the issue is not nearly as bad, but i do see some floor moisture in this very area of my basement near the bilco door when receiving heavy rain as it is the lowest point in the basement. i was given suggestions for french drains and a sump pump, but albeit important, it is off topic for this discussion.

Thanks
Moisture issues
leaky doors?
Leaky wall?
up thru floor?
other?

Concrete floor. out of level, built at different levels or?????

Bilco entrance from basement height and width?? and is the floor level there.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
Also please note: I do have moisture issues in my basement. Over the years I have taken steps to improve this on the exterior of my home and the issue is not nearly as bad, but i do see some floor moisture in this very area of my basement near the bilco door when receiving heavy rain as it is the lowest point in the basement. i was given suggestions for french drains and a sump pump, but albeit important, it is off topic for this discussion.

Thanks
Moisture issues
leaky doors?
Leaky wall?
up thru floor?
other?

Concrete floor. out of level, built at different levels or?????

Bilco entrance from basement height and width?? and is the floor level there.
Luck have it that we have heavy rain today in my area so I will take pics.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:09 PM   #34
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Moisture issues
leaky doors?
Leaky wall?
up thru floor?
other?

Concrete floor. out of level, built at different levels or?????

Bilco entrance from basement height and width?? and is the floor level there.
Here are two pictures of the bilco door entrance. You see the steps and floor near it are wet.
Attached Thumbnails
Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)-20180112_155808.jpg   Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)-20180112_155827.jpg  
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:13 PM   #35
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Moisture issues
leaky doors?
Leaky wall?
up thru floor?
other?

Concrete floor. out of level, built at different levels or?????

Bilco entrance from basement height and width?? and is the floor level there.
Here is the area in question under my kitchen. I took a panorama photo. The moisture on the walls are old. I just never removed them.
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Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)-20180112_155914_1.jpg  
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:20 PM   #36
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
Here are two pictures of the bilco door entrance. You see the steps and floor near it are wet.
I would think the dehumidifier is keeping that at bay.
Before getting into sumps pumps and what ever you have to go out and look at ground level, lower than foundation top and lower than bilco curb.
ground slopes away from house. gutters downspouts? water directed away from house.

Any wet foundation wall anywhere else in the basement. Or base of wall at the floor.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:43 PM   #37
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Thanks for the pictures. To make you, maybe, feel better, mine is newer and dry but it became the junk collector over the years. New rule started a few years ago is for every one thing that goes down there 3 things must leave. It is working but there will be a major clean up week this summer, fortunately I'll have the three kids to help, much is theirs anyway.

Back to your basement, that Bilco entrance is an issue but the door can be added at any point. If necessary it can be left open when drying is needed.

Bud

PS, not sure what the outside looks like but could you consider a dog house over the top of the Bilco entrance to shed the water.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:34 AM   #38
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


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Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
Thanks for the pictures. To make you, maybe, feel better, mine is newer and dry but it became the junk collector over the years. New rule started a few years ago is for every one thing that goes down there 3 things must leave. It is working but there will be a major clean up week this summer, fortunately I'll have the three kids to help, much is theirs anyway.

Back to your basement, that Bilco entrance is an issue but the door can be added at any point. If necessary it can be left open when drying is needed.

Bud

PS, not sure what the outside looks like but could you consider a dog house over the top of the Bilco entrance to shed the water.
Bud, lol... My wife says the basement is a disgrace and wont do gown there, so for now withstanding the view its my man cave, lol... She keeps asking me to put in a family room for the kids to have their games and such so on the journey I go.

P.S. Outside of the bilco door is my patio so unless it was something aesthetically pleasing my wife wouldn't go for it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:16 PM   #39
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
Here are two pictures of the bilco door entrance. You see the steps and floor near it are wet.
Is that daylight at the seams of the bilco? That could be the problem right there!
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:22 PM   #40
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
1). Insulating Rim Joists. I found R10 2" thick rigid insulation, that seems to be the correct one for this job. along with spray foam to insulating around the grooves of the insulation. Do I install the insulation with adhesive or screws?
Yes. This is a great start and you can just use a dab of adhesive from a caulk gun to attach the foam. Just use one meant for foam as some of the construction adhesives will melt the foam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
2). Install insulated exterior door (with pressure treated wood frame) in entry way to prevent heat escape from bilco doors.
This will make a huge difference in stopping the cold air coming in. It's also a real security upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
3). Replace old single pane windows with new double pane. Any specific windows? or just any double pane that will fit in the space?
This one is a little more debatable if you consider the cost vs return. You can get a similar effect by just sealing a little better around the window or adding another layer to act similarly to a storm window. I've seen those hair dryer shrink plastics used or plexi if you don't have any need for egress. They also make snap in storms that go on the inside. That could work well here if you can get a good seal around the edges.
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Last edited by NotYerUncleBob2; 01-13-2018 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:11 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotYerUncleBob2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
1). Insulating Rim Joists. I found R10 2" thick rigid insulation, that seems to be the correct one for this job. along with spray foam to insulating around the grooves of the insulation. Do I install the insulation with adhesive or screws?
Yes. This is a great start and you can just use a dab of adhesive from a caulk gun to attach the foam. Just use one meant for foam as some of the construction adhesives will melt the foam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
2). Install insulated exterior door (with pressure treated wood frame) in entry way to prevent heat escape from bilco doors.
This will make a huge difference in stopping the cold air coming in. It's also a real security upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEyeWhy View Post
3). Replace old single pane windows with new double pane. Any specific windows? or just any double pane that will fit in the space?
This one is a little more debatable if you consider the cost vs return. You can get a similar effect by just sealing a little better around the window or adding another layer to act similarly to a storm window. I've seen those hair dryer shrink plastics used or plexi if you don't have any need for egress. They also make snap in storms that go on the inside. That could work well here if you can get a good seal around the edges.
Hey guys before I start any of this insulation work do you think I should have a sump pump installed to deal with the moisture? Right now I have no moisture controls in the basement other than a dehumidifier.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2018, 01:39 PM   #42
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


A sump pit and pump is always a good addition even in a seemingly dry basement, water comes from sources other than through the floors and foundation. Just a few that I have had to deal with:
Water pipes breaking, water pipe joints letting go, frozen and burst water pipes, washing machine leaks, washing machine hoses, showers overflowing, sinks overflowing, leaks in the roof, wind/rain/broken window. Fortunately none were major or had a good drain in place.

If you install a sump pit review the methods used when Radon mitigation is involved.

Bud
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Old 01-16-2018, 01:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
A sump pit and pump is always a good addition even in a seemingly dry basement, water comes from sources other than through the floors and foundation. Just a few that I have had to deal with:
Water pipes breaking, water pipe joints letting go, frozen and burst water pipes, washing machine leaks, washing machine hoses, showers overflowing, sinks overflowing, leaks in the roof, wind/rain/broken window. Fortunately none were major or had a good drain in place.

If you install a sump pit review the methods used when Radon mitigation is involved.

Bud
Thanks bud.

Do you think I should dry-lok my walls before putting on the rigid insulation? The walls already had a coat of dry-lok but over the years they started to peel and chip and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to seal the walls before installing the insulation.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:27 PM   #44
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Drylock when applied directly to a clean concrete surface is a water barrier but not a vapor barrier, which is fine as the rigid foam is the same, a vapor retarder. Allowing a small amount of drying to the inside is good and easily handled along with conditioning the inside air. Adding a second coat to an old layer of dry-lokl, my guess is it will not work well as designed. Thus save your money for other improvements. Now, all of this is mute if you have a water issue, actual water leaking in. If so you may need to rethink how those wall built.

Bud
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:55 PM   #45
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Re: Insulation for real 2in x 8in floor joists (old house)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
Drylock when applied directly to a clean concrete surface is a water barrier but not a vapor barrier, which is fine as the rigid foam is the same, a vapor retarder. Allowing a small amount of drying to the inside is good and easily handled along with conditioning the inside air. Adding a second coat to an old layer of dry-lokl, my guess is it will not work well as designed. Thus save your money for other improvements. Now, all of this is mute if you have a water issue, actual water leaking in. If so you may need to rethink how those wall built.

Bud
We don't do bilco doors so we always have a landing outside the door with drainage. How would you deal with sealing a door threshold with out dealing with water? I guess that was your dog house suggestion.
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