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Old 01-07-2015, 12:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Chewbacka View Post
The frost is the dewpoint trying to penetrate the house (via air migration), because of the prior lack of insulation, the warmer moister interior air is exfiltrating to the colder outside sheathing layer, then freezing on contact when it hit's the cold surface. Your objective and task is to stop the movement of air in OR out of the heated envelope of your house, in ALL seasons. Ideally, I would have cut 2" (both sides foil faced) Tuff-R insulation to fit between the wall studs using canned spray foam to seal the perimeter of the insulation/wall stud, and then filled any remaining void with the Roxul.

Your plan to add the foil faced insulation after the Roxul, will help immensely! Make sure not to overlap the seams of the Roxul and the foil faced insulation, and definately use the metal/foil duct tape to seal all the seams. You could can spray foam the perimeter of each piece to the 2X3" laid flat studs to make the room 'bomb' proof.

But, what you have done should accomplish a lot of good, and soundproofing too, which the Roxul is excellent at. Use a high quality sheetrock product that contains mold and mildew retardants, and as little paper content as possible; this reduces the chance of mold getting a hold.

Your only problem now is you won't want to go into any other rooms in the house!
Thank you very much gentlemen I'm very impressed with the Roxul. I appreciate your comments as this is room one. All of your help will apply to the future rooms. That foil foam is expensive stuff!!

Oh and as far as leaving the room ummmmmm........my wife is my construction partner too
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:24 PM   #17
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You're welcome. Glad to be of service.
Yes, the foil faced rigid foam is not cheap, but you will thank yourself time and again for using it. There is no better product, combined with Roxul to get the job done! I know, I've used it everywhere I can to mitigate loss of energy $$$.
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:14 PM   #18
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What type of siding?

Gary
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17,000 dryer fires a year, when did you last clean the inside of the dryer near motor or the exhaust ducting?
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:17 AM   #19
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What type of siding?

Gary
Sheathing is 1 X "whatever they had", and the siding is horizontal cedar clapboard
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:00 AM   #20
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I would imagine there's a good bit of solar vapor drive in that assembly during the wet seasons.

This is where a piece of rigid foam that is installed to the backside of the sheeting, with a small air gap, might do a better job of keeping moisture out of that assembly.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:06 AM   #21
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I would imagine there's a good bit of solar vapor drive in that assembly during the wet seasons.

This is where a piece of rigid foam that is installed to the backside of the sheeting, with a small air gap, might do a better job of keeping moisture out of that assembly.
I'm not sure what you mean by "solar vapor drive"??
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:36 AM   #22
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I'm not sure what you mean by "solar vapor drive"??
Heat from the sun extracting moisture from the conditioned space and from/through the exterior wall materials. ( I know you weren't asking me the q, but I thought I'd take a stab at the answer so you have one ...)
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:20 AM   #23
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http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...0vapor%20drive

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...0vapor%20drive

Good reads.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:41 PM   #24
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Thanks, guys. Even one of my links I use..... lol, I can see us old guys missing it, but the younger too.... Yes, vapor drive is a part of the answer to my siding question. Not just from solar drive, there is also pressure drive of water from outside to cavity pressure= high to low. And the tar paper (if there) is giving capillarity (drive/pull?) to wet the sheathing boards because cedar siding is a "reservoir" siding and wicks water (wet to dry) also. I really doubt the siding is back-primed, has a rainscreen or two paper layers to prevent all this.

Then with the foil facing as the vapor barrier inboard, drying can/will only occur to the exterior. Not to mention any rainy days with the AC on, if you have that kind of summer. Similar to the "unvented brick frame wall with a poly vapor barrier" in your Zone 5; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...y4ETIg&cad=rja


Poly (or foil) is not a good idea, IMO.
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Last edited by Gary in WA; 01-08-2015 at 09:49 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:47 PM   #25
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The foil on both sides of 2" rigid insulation keeps moisture from the house exterior from passing to the interior. The inner foil and the 2" thickness keep warm moist air from passing from the conditioned space to where the dew point would allow that same moist air to freeze and later thaw when atmospheric/weather conditions and pressures change.
Unless everyone with older houses, built various ways as 'technology advanced' were to strip off their siding and redo the materials to make for the absolute best weather impervious house, and at great expense in the process, most people trying to conserve energy $ spent while gaining the most benefit in terms of comfort/warmth will opt for those products which properly applied keep the heat and cold in the living space, as needed. Some exterior surfaces may not get the attention they need, but mold and moisture issues can be controlled better by reducing random air flow into the conditioned spaces by blocking water/moisture/ dew point migration at places like sill/rim joist interfaces. Proper gutters, roofing methods, siding choices, and their ability to shed excess water are all important factors too.

I don't prefer the use of plastic for vapor issues because often it gets put in the wrong place in the house envelope and can then cause more issues than it was intended to solve.
Double faced foam is an entirely different animal, and like all building materials it can have huge benefits when used and placed in the proper position in the sandwich.
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:15 AM   #26
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In many of these applications, the interior moisture is not the significant issue.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:17 AM   #27
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True. However indoor air quality should trump exterior issues from the standpoint of occupant health and comfort.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:38 AM   #28
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The concern with a potential vapor trap is that if you don't allow that exterior wall to dry out in both directions you can potential he have mold, mildew, and rot issues.

In those moisture sensitive cladding scenarios, this is why I prefer putting the foam between the studs.

These older type wall systems can be tricky to make efficient and dry.

Drafty was always a safe bet to keep dry.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:45 PM   #29
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I would not recommend the foil facing as it too low a perm rating; stops all drying to inside from incidental water (wet reservoir wood with flow-through wet building paper with wet solid wood sheathing) with R-27 in front of it. Inside face of sheathing is same as outdoor temps; wet, cold wood. Wet for longer periods of time, longer to dry out, unlike OSB or plywood sheathing that will retard the moisture drive. Drys in summer. The interior foam board is fine, just the facing that bothers me, as brought out in Figs. 6 and 7= no poly; high OR low moisture content. Read page 8; Zone 5..... http://web.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/...papers/143.pdf

It's the outside wetting, not the minimal interior vapor diffusion that bothers me; poly is way over-kill, a newer report that will surprise a few readers; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ll-performance

In your Zone 5, I would rather see a drywall primer+two coats of paint (5 perms) OR a vapor barrier paint (1+ perms) to allow some intrior drying of the studs/sheathing. Compare the foil faced (Poly) to others in Fig. 3; http://www.rci-online.org/interface/2010-04-gatland.pdf

And ADA the drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

Depending on location, may not need worry about the summertime interior moisture drive (when sheathing is wet and trying to dry inward, wetting the studs;
"
Summer temperatures are delightfully comfortable for the most part, and summer averages are quite
uniform all across the State. Long term averages for July range from 67 to 70 F in the Western Division and in the islands off the coast, from 70 to 74
elsewhere. Hot days, those with maxima of 90 F or higher, generally average from five to 15 per year. The number of 90 F days varies considerably from place to place, but also from year to year. They can range from only a few days in cool summers to 25 o
r more in
hot summers. Record number of 90 or higher days was experienced during summer of 1983 when 20-30 days were observed across the State" From; http://www.cocorahs.org/Media/docs/ClimateSum_MA.pdf

Make sure your siding is well painted, especially the drip edges to stop any capillarity, and at windows/doors; renew the caulking/backer rod when needed; http://www.energyoutwest.org/eow_lib...gas_Damage.pdf

Cedar siding problems with a house wrap; OP may/may-not have tar paper; http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/pdf/RainScreen.pdf

My 2 cents, take it or leave for others.... Gary
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