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Old 04-19-2010, 07:30 AM   #151
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How to fireblock framing


Lurked Nov of last year but and actually started framing basement without permit. Now am worried about actually getting a permit. Actually I went to zoning office, obtained forms and requested for any zoning/coding materials and they say they don't distribute out any longer since not everything applies to a given property. Sounds kind of suspicious to me. Then how do I know if I'm actually doing the right thing or not. Is this what they mean by NJ corruption? Gentleman I spoke to actually suggested metal studs but I've already purchased 2x3 lumber. Anyway, do you think fireblocking I've done with 9/16 drywall on above top plate is sufficient so far or is this sloppy work? Live in Sayreville, NJ and this was a 2005 new construction with pre-installed foil batt insulation. New framing is offset from actual concrete wall(anywhere from 4-6" approx). Please note, of course, that in pictures wall is the one with foil backing. Let me know if I need to post individual pictures. Framing is 2x3" and 9/16 drywall as fireblock on above or beside top plate.
http://alegende.multiply.com/photos/album/6/basement

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Old 05-02-2010, 10:01 AM   #152
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How to fireblock framing


i've read through this thread and see a lot of discussion about vertical-to-horizontal fire blocks but what about horizontal-to-horizontal? i'm finishing a basement and will be putting in a wall between two rooms. wall is perpendicular to floor joists. wall is basic 2x4 with 1/2" drywall on both sides. ceilings in both rooms would be finished with 1/2" drywall. header for the new wall takes care of vertical-to-horizontal blocking but what about in the joist cavities shared above the two rooms? couldn't fire readily pass from one room to another in this case? would i need to put blocking in the floor joist cavities (i.e. "extending" the wall up to the first floor)?
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:44 PM   #153
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How to fireblock framing


Hey termite (or any others)...

I kinda have one that is in between stages. I have read through a few times and feel like I have something that may be just beyond one of the other posts. My friends that have all finished their basements keep telling me that I am just putting up drywall and to stop worrying/analyzing. But, I know that I am doing more than that - I am creating a space that no one can see again.

My question is about the following wall (can't figure out how to post a pic - but here is a link to it)...

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/y...l/IMG_3253.jpg

On the other side of that wall is the garage. This is a utility room that I am now finishing to be an office (it will be conditioned). My question (obviously) is about fireblocking. You can see the back of the chase from the vertical space. This is a 2x6 wall with a 2x4 wall in front and a chase infront of that - I think there was an 'oops' in building and that is why I have that.

What do I do? I am going to want insulation in that wall. Will that be enough? If so, I guess I need to use unfaced (pretty packed in) and then put a barrier on the side I am going to rock. If I need to block, do I put insulation above, then block, then insulation below?
Any consideration to the circuit breaker that is about 3 stud bays over to the right of that picture...

Thanks to anyone/everyone for their time/opinion.
--JB
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:50 PM   #154
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How to fireblock framing


This is the most amazing thread. I have frequently spent hours scratching my head wondering when I should be fireblocking and when I should not. You explain it easily and with pictures.

I currently live in a 150 year old 4 story brownstone. Running vertically (in a corner of the house) from the basement to the top floor is a pipe chase about 1 foot wide by 6 inches deep.

The chase abuts against brick on two sides and framed drywall (or board depending on the floor) on the other two sides. From what I can tell, it is fireblocked from floor and ceiling as well as soffits (but of course I cant see every spot).

I live on the top two floors of the brownstone and am currently doing renovations in the area where this chase runs.

Any insights could be very helpful:

- Should I fireblock and insulate around the pipes as much as possible on the floor and ceiling of the room I am working in? If so with what (No way I'm going to be cutting pipes and fitting them through anything)?

- Are there requirements for placing access panels into the chase?


On another note...in the same room, which happens to be my kitchen, I there is a soffit that runs right above where the cabinets are located. The soffit is much larger than it needs to be and very poorly built. It contains the drainage for tub, sink and toilet on the floor above to the chase mentioned in the above sections.

I am considering tearing it out entirely (at least down to the required framing elements) and either rebuilding it or potentially even placing another set of cabinet framing and doors (it would fit exactly) that would make it appear that my cabinets ran all the way to the ceiling. So if I did that, from what I can tell, it sounds like I would not necessarily need any particular fireblock (since it only concerns a horrizontally running soffit against ceiling joists...).

I will attempt to get pictures of all of this or draw diiagrams, but any input would be helpful. I'm certain to spend countless hours thinking about this and slowing down any forward progress until I feel comfortable with how this should be executed.

Thanks,

BrooklynDIY
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #155
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How to fireblock framing


Awesome thread. Thanks for sharing. i am going to have to read this when I got more time. Thanks for the share.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:26 PM   #156
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How to fireblock framing


Horizontal to horizontal fireblocking isn't required by code in the circumstance you're describing. You could block it off but there is no requirement to do so.

Fireblocking isn't intended to keep fire from passing from one room to another. It is intended to keep fire from moving too far in concealed spaces, which makes fire hard to fight and hard to detect.

Draftstopping is required in large concealed horizontal spaces such as furred down ceilings or open web trusses, but those spaces have to be pretty darn big before that requirement kicks in. Most homes aren't large enough to require it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsnotrequired View Post
i've read through this thread and see a lot of discussion about vertical-to-horizontal fire blocks but what about horizontal-to-horizontal? i'm finishing a basement and will be putting in a wall between two rooms. wall is perpendicular to floor joists. wall is basic 2x4 with 1/2" drywall on both sides. ceilings in both rooms would be finished with 1/2" drywall. header for the new wall takes care of vertical-to-horizontal blocking but what about in the joist cavities shared above the two rooms? couldn't fire readily pass from one room to another in this case? would i need to put blocking in the floor joist cavities (i.e. "extending" the wall up to the first floor)?
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:29 PM   #157
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How to fireblock framing


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbatl View Post
Hey termite (or any others)...

I kinda have one that is in between stages. I have read through a few times and feel like I have something that may be just beyond one of the other posts. My friends that have all finished their basements keep telling me that I am just putting up drywall and to stop worrying/analyzing. But, I know that I am doing more than that - I am creating a space that no one can see again.

My question is about the following wall (can't figure out how to post a pic - but here is a link to it)...

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/y...l/IMG_3253.jpg

On the other side of that wall is the garage. This is a utility room that I am now finishing to be an office (it will be conditioned). My question (obviously) is about fireblocking. You can see the back of the chase from the vertical space. This is a 2x6 wall with a 2x4 wall in front and a chase infront of that - I think there was an 'oops' in building and that is why I have that.

What do I do? I am going to want insulation in that wall. Will that be enough? If so, I guess I need to use unfaced (pretty packed in) and then put a barrier on the side I am going to rock. If I need to block, do I put insulation above, then block, then insulation below?
Any consideration to the circuit breaker that is about 3 stud bays over to the right of that picture...

Thanks to anyone/everyone for their time/opinion.
--JB
Sorry for the late response JB. Hope it isn't too late to help. I'm not fully understanding what you've got going on....Could you possibly post some more pictures to better paint a picture of the space?
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:34 PM   #158
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How to fireblock framing


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynDIY View Post
This is the most amazing thread. I have frequently spent hours scratching my head wondering when I should be fireblocking and when I should not. You explain it easily and with pictures.

I currently live in a 150 year old 4 story brownstone. Running vertically (in a corner of the house) from the basement to the top floor is a pipe chase about 1 foot wide by 6 inches deep.

The chase abuts against brick on two sides and framed drywall (or board depending on the floor) on the other two sides. From what I can tell, it is fireblocked from floor and ceiling as well as soffits (but of course I cant see every spot).

I live on the top two floors of the brownstone and am currently doing renovations in the area where this chase runs.

Any insights could be very helpful:

- Should I fireblock and insulate around the pipes as much as possible on the floor and ceiling of the room I am working in? If so with what (No way I'm going to be cutting pipes and fitting them through anything)?
Provided the chase is just a chase and isn't serving as a combustion air vent for fuel burning appliances in a basement, you should be able to fireblock it effectively.
- Are there requirements for placing access panels into the chase?
Not in the residential code. I'm assuming your building is just a unit or two and isn't covered under the commercial code. That is an assumption.

On another note...in the same room, which happens to be my kitchen, I there is a soffit that runs right above where the cabinets are located. The soffit is much larger than it needs to be and very poorly built. It contains the drainage for tub, sink and toilet on the floor above to the chase mentioned in the above sections.

I am considering tearing it out entirely (at least down to the required framing elements) and either rebuilding it or potentially even placing another set of cabinet framing and doors (it would fit exactly) that would make it appear that my cabinets ran all the way to the ceiling. So if I did that, from what I can tell, it sounds like I would not necessarily need any particular fireblock (since it only concerns a horrizontally running soffit against ceiling joists...).
Assuming your soffit doesn't intersect open vertical wall framing, there is no requirement to isolate it from the ceiling joists above. If you can see into the studs, it would be a good idea to fireblock it before closing it up.

I will attempt to get pictures of all of this or draw diiagrams, but any input would be helpful. I'm certain to spend countless hours thinking about this and slowing down any forward progress until I feel comfortable with how this should be executed.

Thanks,

BrooklynDIY
Sorry for the late response BrooklynDIY, hope this helps.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:52 PM   #159
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How to fireblock framing


Thanks for the reply. Its only two units. I'm pretty certain that the chase is just that ... the furnace is on the other side of the house and has a chimney to vent out.

With respect to fireblocking between the floors where the pipes go through in the chase (at floor and ceiling), what is the best material to do this with? Just get some fireproof insulation? Cover with sheetmetal as much as possible then caulk?

The soffit does intersect with the chase, in the past it wasn't blocked from the vertical chase at all. I'll frame and drywall around the pipes as best as possible to cut off the chase from the soffit; however I'm wondering what the best way to fill in around the cracks that are left is? Apply drywall mud right up to the pipe, caulk?

Thanks!
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:14 AM   #160
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How to fireblock framing


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Originally Posted by legende View Post
Lurked Nov of last year but and actually started framing basement without permit. Now am worried about actually getting a permit. Actually I went to zoning office, obtained forms and requested for any zoning/coding materials and they say they don't distribute out any longer since not everything applies to a given property. Sounds kind of suspicious to me. Then how do I know if I'm actually doing the right thing or not. Is this what they mean by NJ corruption? Gentleman I spoke to actually suggested metal studs but I've already purchased 2x3 lumber. Anyway, do you think fireblocking I've done with 9/16 drywall on above top plate is sufficient so far or is this sloppy work? Live in Sayreville, NJ and this was a 2005 new construction with pre-installed foil batt insulation. New framing is offset from actual concrete wall(anywhere from 4-6" approx). Please note, of course, that in pictures wall is the one with foil backing. Let me know if I need to post individual pictures. Framing is 2x3" and 9/16 drywall as fireblock on above or beside top plate.
http://alegende.multiply.com/photos/album/6/basement

Sorry, but did anyone get a chance to look at these pictures? These are pictures of headers at the top of the ceiling. As you can see, there is already foil-backed insulation installed in this 5 year old house. It is also very difficult to install a 2x8 pressure treated firestop header as there is not enough room to wedge it between top of foil-backed insulation, the concrete wall slap and ceiling joists. I don't have a picture of this but trust me, this is reason why I went with the 5/8" sheetrock method as suggested by a Home Depot consultant. Anyway, do you suggest I redo this; maybe double the thickness, as well as the width of the drywall header so it will be over the frame header instead of beside it.
Also, on picture #3, I left a hole in the drywall header since I need access to a pipe shutoff valve - should this be covered with just insulation or is there another way to do this and still keep the access to the valve?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:12 AM   #161
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How to fireblock framing


Legende, I looked at your pictures but honestly I can't make a bit of sense from them. They're too close to determine the subject area and they're taken at odd angles. Can you back up, take some overall pics of the area in question? I'm thinking there may be some info I could gain by seeing the entire wall and how it intersects the ceiling.

Also, can you please post your pics on this site as opposed to a hosting site. That way your pics are a permanent part of this thread. 3rd party hosting sites are discouraged just because a few months from now you may delete the pics from your album and they'll no longer be viewable to us.

Post up some better pics and more info and I'll do my best to help you out.

By the way, the "Home Depot consultant" phrase scares the bejeebers out of me.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:27 AM   #162
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How to fireblock framing


Fine Hombuilding and Mike Holmes both recommend basement remodels to be framed in this manner: Concrete wall>2 in foam board directly against concrete>sheet rock directly against foam board (cavities can be filled with insulation as an option). If your framed wall has a top plate, do you need any additional fire stop (other then sealing wire/pipe penetrations)? The article (ref. below) shows a plywood strip installed over the foam board blocking airflow into the ceiling joist. Based on a previous comment on page 10, do you recommend against using foam board?

Ref: http://www.blessthishouse.biz/conten...20Basement.pdf
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:22 AM   #163
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How to fireblock framing


Weekend worker, this is where the code gets a little interpretive, so take this with a grain of salt...

I agree with the article you posted that shows a strip of plywood above any foam board, fixed to the underside of the floor joists or ceiling joists. That takes care of the required fireblock, provided the plywood is 3/4" thick. Some might argue that the foam blocks the airflow between the wall and the horizontal spaces above the wall, but I differ on that. In a fire, that foam goes bye-bye really quick. It is highly combustible and will not provide any barrier against fire or hot gases. So, on my inspections I require the space to be fireblocked with code-specified materials whether foam is used or not. It certainly isn't prohibited, but it isn't recognized or listed as a fireblocking material.

Personally I don't care to put foam in my walls. I agree with the insulative and moisture attributes that foam offers and recognize those benefits. So I guess I wouldn't go as far as recommending against it. Being safety minded, I don't want anything that combustible in my walls. It burns, and it burns fast. When burning it gives off mighty toxic fumes. I'm more of a vapor barrier and fiberglass guy I guess.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:48 PM   #164
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How to fireblock framing


Awesome thread. This is something we have to address in the house we just purchased. Thanks for sharing...

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Old 08-16-2010, 02:10 AM   #165
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How to fireblock framing


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Legende, I looked at your pictures but honestly I can't make a bit of sense from them. They're too close to determine the subject area and they're taken at odd angles. Can you back up, take some overall pics of the area in question? I'm thinking there may be some info I could gain by seeing the entire wall and how it intersects the ceiling.

Also, can you please post your pics on this site as opposed to a hosting site. That way your pics are a permanent part of this thread. 3rd party hosting sites are discouraged just because a few months from now you may delete the pics from your album and they'll no longer be viewable to us.

Post up some better pics and more info and I'll do my best to help you out.

By the way, the "Home Depot consultant" phrase scares the bejeebers out of me.

Here's some pictures, hopefully they'll be posted on this site now. Excuse the HD consultant reference. Didn't know what to call the guy; guess just plain "guy" would be better. :-p

p.s. excuse the delay as well. went on a 2 week vac, then misplaced camera that had these pics.
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