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Old 03-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #136
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How to fireblock framing


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Your fireblocking would need to occur at or below the "top plate" of the short wall that is built underneath the duct. That's where vertical stud spaces meet the horizontal bulkhead and the floor joists via the bulkhead. It will be necessary to pack insulation or fire foam between the insulation board and the top plate to prevent vertical movement.....Right about at the "N" in "concrete".

It can be argued that the foil backed foam insulation board shouldn't exist at the line of the fireblock because of its high flammability. In the event of a fire that stuff goes up like a Roman candle and will negate the benefit of the fireblocking because it acts like a wick that will permit passage of flame and smoke past your best fireblocking efforts. That's a jurisdictional decision, so I'd advise contacting your building inspector before you get carried away. Personally I require blocking solid to the foundation and they can install the foam board above and below the block as they see fit, but that's how I choose to enforce it....As a functional fireblock!
Thekctermite:
Thanks for your very helpful input. I apologize if some details were lacking from the picture. First, the insulation is not an 'insulation board' but rather R-13 foil backed 'mineral fiber' or 'glass wool' or 'fiber glass' type of material that is nailed to the concrete. It is a blanket of pink stuff that goes from the slab to the top of the foundation wall. Will this material be acceptable? This house was built new in 2006. The proposed wall is 21 feet long.

If I understand your intent, you do not advise the installation of styrofoam or other flammable boards. Point understood and acknowledged.

Second, since the insulation is fluffy (like a blanket), I'd have to use mineral fiber to stuff between the existing insulation and the 'top plate' of the short wall, correct? Gypsum board will not be good enough because the insulation blanket does not form a perfect straight line to block completely and gypsum will still leave gaps. Alternately, I could put gypsum board and then stuff the gap with mineral fiber.

Third, how does one fire-block between the concealed horizontal spaces in the bulkhead/soffit and the concealed horizontal spaces (at 90 degree angles) between the floor joists?

Thanks, again

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Old 03-23-2010, 09:48 PM   #137
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How to fireblock framing


The insulation blanket if fine. Definitely not going to be a problem having that there. If you aren't building the wall tight to it, just use additional similar material to seal the gap between the insulation blanket and the top plate. Not sure what you mean regarding the gyp board, but want to be clear that you don't have to rock the back side of the wall on the foundation side. Gyp can certainly be used as a fireblock though.

Your third question is pretty well covered in post 132. No fireblocking is required from the furdown/soffit/bulkhead to the floor system. Just have to fireblock the vertical walls from the bulkhead and the floor above. Vertical to horizontal movement of a fire is what we're trying to prevent. Horizontal movement alone isn't an issue to the code.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:37 PM   #138
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How to fireblock framing


"Your third question is pretty well covered in post 132. No fireblocking is required from the furdown/soffit/bulkhead to the floor system. Just have to fireblock the vertical walls from the bulkhead and the floor above. Vertical to horizontal movement of a fire is what we're trying to prevent. Horizontal movement alone isn't an issue to the code." ---------- Kc, aren't the walls behind the studs with a space to concrete filled with insulation batts required to be fire-stopped every 10' horizontally as well? Bottom plate to top plate between the concrete and the stud wall, every 10 lineal feet along the wall's length.

http://www.codecheck.com/cc/images/CC5thEdSample.pdf

A side note to poster DHT--- http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ts?full_view=1
http://www.swinter.com/services/docu...Insulation.pdf

Be safe, Gary
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:15 PM   #139
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How to fireblock framing


Thanks for this thread KC. I had never heard of fireblocking before and am learning as I am reading through all these threads. I still did not give it much thought after reading the thread but now I am getting behind walls, under floors and into attic spaces as I modify and install new DWV and water supply lines. I see that my stud spaces are blocked with dimensional 2x4s and the holes I am creating for my new vent will also be sealed up when I am finished.

I think it can be tempting as a homeowner to take shortcuts on safety codes after all, nobody can know what's going on in the privacy of your home unless you invite them in. But when you consider the safety of your family, it is not so tempting to cheap out on safety.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:01 PM   #140
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How to fireblock framing


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Kc, aren't the walls behind the studs with a space to concrete filled with insulation batts required to be fire-stopped every 10' horizontally as well? Bottom plate to top plate between the concrete and the stud wall, every 10 lineal feet along the wall's length.
Yes Gary. He does also have to fireblock the space between the foundation and the wall every 10' measured horizontally. It might work out that his wall is tight enough to the insulation blanket that is installed, negating the need for that fireblock. But the 10' horizontal thing has definitely been covered somewhere back in this thread.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:02 PM   #141
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How to fireblock framing


Thanks Jim F. Thanks for saying thanks! I like your outlook on doing the job the correct and safest way.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:32 PM   #142
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How to fireblock framing


Thanks, for all your help as well. I just went through, and passed (horray!) my rough inspection in my basement for framing (fireblocking), plumbing, and electrical. Sadly, I felt all my work, and worry, was for nothing. "Did I do this right", "will this pass", "do I need to fireblock the soffits and electrical panel". The town inspector was at my home for a total of 2 minutes. He really didn't even look at any of my fireblocking. The electrical inspector on the other hand was VERY inpressed, and suprised that I even did any fireblocking. I suppose it depends from inspector to inspector. It was a good experience though. I learned about fireblocking (and what a mess and pain it can be) and just how important it really is. It gives me peace of mind that I have done something that will protect my family and make my home safer. They were also impressed that I placed smoke dectors in every room. I feel my family is worth it. Thanks again for all your advice. I'll get around to posting some pics soon.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:27 PM   #143
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How to fireblock framing


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Thanks, for all your help as well. I just went through, and passed (horray!) my rough inspection in my basement for framing (fireblocking), plumbing, and electrical. Sadly, I felt all my work, and worry, was for nothing. "Did I do this right", "will this pass", "do I need to fireblock the soffits and electrical panel". The town inspector was at my home for a total of 2 minutes. He really didn't even look at any of my fireblocking. The electrical inspector on the other hand was VERY inpressed, and suprised that I even did any fireblocking. I suppose it depends from inspector to inspector. It was a good experience though. I learned about fireblocking (and what a mess and pain it can be) and just how important it really is. It gives me peace of mind that I have done something that will protect my family and make my home safer. They were also impressed that I placed smoke dectors in every room. I feel my family is worth it. Thanks again for all your advice. I'll get around to posting some pics soon.
Don't want to get this thread off topic, but I'm an inspector and I've been in your shoes and felt the same way with inspections done on my own home. My bathroom's final consisted of the guy checking to see if the sinks' traps leaked. Really? That's it? After we were done I told him what I do for a living. Awkward moment.
I personally had to explain fireblocking to an inspector from another city when doing an inspection on his home in the city I worked in a few years ago. Not so impressive. It had to be pretty embarassing for that inspector to fail his own rough-in inspection. It goes to show you that inspectors are people too, some know their jobs better than others, and some care about what they do more than others.

There's a lot of satisfaction to be had in screwing that sheetrock to your wall knowing that everything behind that sheetrock is done correctly and as safely as possible. Well done!
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:13 PM   #144
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How to fireblock framing


How does one fireblock if using clips to decouple walls from ceiling joists for sound proofing? See this product. I have no idea how to go about doing this.

Thanks
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:05 PM   #145
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How to fireblock framing


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How does one fireblock if using clips to decouple walls from ceiling joists for sound proofing? See this product. I have no idea how to go about doing this.

Thanks
If a firewall is required at that point, decoupling is really a problem. You would have to run the sheetrock all the way up but obviously, that defeats the decoupling effect of the gadgets. There are methods to install a flexible joint using a fire rated caulk if you must have a firewall at that point.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:33 PM   #146
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How to fireblock framing


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Originally Posted by DIYHomeTheater View Post
How does one fireblock if using clips to decouple walls from ceiling joists for sound proofing? See this product. I have no idea how to go about doing this.

Thanks
I agree with NAP if a firewall is required. That would rarely if ever be the case in single family residential construction, but is nearly always the case in multifamily, apartments, duplexes, condo's, etc.

For the purposes of this thread, let's assume we're dealing with a basic house that doesn't have a firewall in it. If that isn't the case, start a thread and PM me the link and I'll try to help you out.

Those decoupling gadgets (soundproofing for those of you that aren't familiar) would conflict with the fireblocking requirements if they were used on the ceiling and fireblocking didn't occur. Assuming they're being mounted on the ceiling, the best bet is to run your walls' sheetrock all the way to the ceiling joists/top plate. That way there is no potential for vertical to horizontal fire movement from the wall to the dropped/decoupled ceiling. Edges can be sealed with acoustic sealants for a more finished look.

If the walls were somehow decoupled and the ceiling were also decoupled from the framing, that presents a challenge. My best advice would be pre-rock the walls and ceiling before installing the decouplers or resilient channel. That is actually a common assembly for sound in multifamily construction and it works.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:10 AM   #147
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How to fireblock framing


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Assuming they're being mounted on the ceiling, the best bet is to run your walls' sheetrock all the way to the ceiling joists/top plate. That way there is no potential for vertical to horizontal fire movement from the wall to the dropped/decoupled ceiling. Edges can be sealed with acoustic sealants for a more finished look.
Is it not standard practice to rock the ceilings before the walls? Will that work equally well? But, you still have to worry about blocking the concealed vertical spaces between studs or behind studs and the horizontal spaces between ceiling joists. How does one handle that? Thanks

Last edited by DIYHomeTheater; 03-30-2010 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:22 AM   #148
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How to fireblock framing


I am going to frame my own interior basement walls. I have R-13 foil backed insulation ('pink stuff' fiberglass) attached to basement walls. My jurisdiction recommends the attached method for fireblocking.

My question is:

Is inserting 1/2" drywall between top plate of stud wall and ceiling (blocking or joists) strong enough? I am not sure if the stud wall may cause the drywall to crack. Also, the diagram shows that the continuous fireblocking drywall terminates roughly half-way through the width of the top plate. To me it sounds easier to simply extend it all the way to the inside edge of the top plate and then let it butt up against drywall that will be attached to the ceiling. Any thoughts? Thanks
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:30 AM   #149
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How to fireblock framing


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
I agree with NAP if a firewall is required. That would rarely if ever be the case in single family residential construction, but is nearly always the case in multifamily, apartments, duplexes, condo's, etc.

For the purposes of this thread, let's assume we're dealing with a basic house that doesn't have a firewall in it. If that isn't the case, start a thread and PM me the link and I'll try to help you out.

Those decoupling gadgets (soundproofing for those of you that aren't familiar) would conflict with the fireblocking requirements if they were used on the ceiling and fireblocking didn't occur. Assuming they're being mounted on the ceiling, the best bet is to run your walls' sheetrock all the way to the ceiling joists/top plate. That way there is no potential for vertical to horizontal fire movement from the wall to the dropped/decoupled ceiling. Edges can be sealed with acoustic sealants for a more finished look.

If the walls were somehow decoupled and the ceiling were also decoupled from the framing, that presents a challenge. My best advice would be pre-rock the walls and ceiling before installing the decouplers or resilient channel. That is actually a common assembly for sound in multifamily construction and it works.
Would stuffing Roxul in the between the top plate and the ceiling joist do the trick?
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:57 PM   #150
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How to fireblock framing


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Would stuffing Roxul in the between the top plate and the ceiling joist do the trick?
If it is securely retained in place, yes. Insulation cannot be loosely placed to create a fireblock. I'd be looking for a large quantity of insulation to accept it as a fireblock in that application.

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