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Old 12-12-2010, 03:03 PM   #16
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WOW high roof bids (with pics)


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Originally Posted by hoz49 View Post
Oh yeah, I caught his not so "subtleness" But I don't have to play his game do I? Besides, who said anything about "illegals"? I didn't check their papers as they were working for the general contractor ( who is white BTW, not that it matters). That's HIS responsibility.

In my area (Midwest) almost EVERY roofing crew working after the last hailstorm was Latino!

I could care less if they spoke Spanish and listened to Conjunto. In fact, I prefer that over toothless rednecks and hillbilly music.

The guys who did my roof were professional, knew their stuff and didn't futz around or play grab ass. They were all business.

Guess you'd rather pay 11k for a roof you could get done for well less than half?

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

Are you proud when you buy a television out of the back of a van on the street too?

If someone is that much cheaper, something along the line is not legal.

Most people say "I don't care, I saved money". If that makes you feel better then fine, but I imediately think CHEAP ARSE and HYPOCRITE
I'm sure you make a fair wage and aren't taken advantage of.

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Old 12-12-2010, 08:04 PM   #17
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Wound up with the MOR bid of $4300.00 from a construction superintendent who was running a crew of Mexican roofers on the side.
We call them tail-light roofers. Has nothing to do with the crew.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:32 PM   #18
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I was told he was running the roofing crew through his business. I know the material was charged to his company. I really could care less. Insurance or not, contractor or not. The roof was done, on time and in good order with no problems. I've worked in construction since 73 so I know when a crew knows their **** and when they are a bunch of clowns.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:37 PM   #19
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Are you proud when you buy a television out of the back of a van on the street too?

If someone is that much cheaper, something along the line is not legal.

Most people say "I don't care, I saved money". If that makes you feel better then fine, but I imediately think CHEAP ARSE and HYPOCRITE
I'm sure you make a fair wage and aren't taken advantage of.
Calling names now eh? There were no stolen TV's involved and your exaggeration shows you're full of ****. My roof is done and I didn't pay some old man who thought he had golden nails 11k to do it.

Competition sets the pace and price in my book. You can take your opinion and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:00 AM   #20
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I was told he was running the roofing crew through his business. I know the material was charged to his company. I really could care less. Insurance or not, contractor or not. The roof was done, on time and in good order with no problems. I've worked in construction since 73 so I know when a crew knows their **** and when they are a bunch of clowns.

I'm talking oranges and your talking apples.

I'm not trying to say the crew didn't know what they were doing,
I'm saying there's a high probability they were not operating legally.

I'll try an explain, when your working for someone else, you have a boss that you deal with at work, normally is the same boss every day.
When your self employed you have hundreds and hundreds of bosses,
if you hire me to install your roof, your my boss until I finish, the guy/gal next door hires me and they become my boss until I finish their roof, etc.

So, your boss calls you tomorrow and tells you he is now out sourcing the work you normally do to a sub crew, you learn through the grape vine that the sub crew is being ran by your old supervisor (on the side) and neither him or the crew he is working are certified in abatement or are licensed.
You tell all this to your boss and he say's, yeah, but I don't care if they are legal or not, I'll save 13.5% in cost of operations using them and they really know their stuff.

You just smile and say, OK boss, good luck Sir?
I doubt it, you'll probably be pretty upset.

Every time a home owner highers the (on the side) roofer, sider, painter, plumber, tinmen, carpenter, etc., they are doing to the legit contractor the exact same thing your boss did to you in the above scenario.

To be clearer, you do not have to pay top dollar (the highest bid) to get a legit contractor, you just need to find a local small operated (mom & pop) company to get the more realistic and acceptable price.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:03 AM   #21
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You only feel like you got your money's worth because it isn't leaking. Plenty of other storm chasers leave a trail of caulked flashings that leak a year later and yes, sometimes do cost the homeowner half as much as the new roof.

Would you buy a new car without the option to take it back to the dealership?
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:19 AM   #22
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To be clearer, you do not have to pay top dollar (the highest bid) to get a legit contractor, you just need to find a local small operated (mom & pop) company to get the more realistic and acceptable price.
That's what I did Sherlock!

You assume too much.

When I say "on the side" the guy's business is usually commercial. The hail storms came through and he diversified with a few roofing crews to pick up extra business. Again, whether they were "legal" or not is his business. My contract was with his company.

In your scenario above I wouldn't get mad, I'd go into business for myself. Which is what I did in 1985.

And the "small Mom and Pop" was the 11k bid!

I'm no kid and I'm not new to the construction trades. I know the suppliers in town and I know prices. I can take off and I can work the numbers. Hell, I could have roofed it myself if I wanted to, but I gave up the heavy lifting years ago. I know when someone is trying to rip me off and when it's a good deal.

I also hired the same guys to do two more roofs on my rental properties.

You guys jumped on my example because I said they were a Mexican crew. You assumed I picked them up at Home Depot or something. I say BULL****E.

Where do any of you get off trying to belittle, besmirch and question my "citizenship" because I'm an educated consumer who knows the value of a dollar?

Last edited by hoz49; 12-15-2010 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:20 AM   #23
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You only feel like you got your money's worth because it isn't leaking. Plenty of other storm chasers leave a trail of caulked flashings that leak a year later and yes, sometimes do cost the homeowner half as much as the new roof.

Would you buy a new car without the option to take it back to the dealership?

"Fear of loss is a greater motivator than expectation of gain".

One basic tenet of salesmanship.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:10 AM   #24
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That's what I did Sherlock!

You assume too much.

When I say "on the side" the guy's business is usually commercial. The hail storms came through and he diversified with a few roofing crews to pick up extra business. Again, whether they were "legal" or not is his business. My contract was with his company.

(You did not say that originally, your changing your story in the middle of the conversation and than getting upset because I don't understand)

In your scenario above I wouldn't get mad, I'd go into business for myself. Which is what I did in 1985.

(You missed the point, completely)

And the "small Mom and Pop" was the 11k bid!

(WoW)

I'm no kid and I'm not new to the construction trades. I know the suppliers in town and I know prices. I can take off and I can work the numbers. Hell, I could have roofed it myself if I wanted to, but I gave up the heavy lifting years ago. I know when someone is trying to rip me off and when it's a good deal.

(I'm glad you know enough to not let anyone rip you off)

I also hired the same guys to do two more roofs on my rental properties.

(Glad to hear they were good enough to get repeat work from you,
maybe they'll go legit now)


You guys jumped on my example because I said they were a Mexican crew. You assumed I picked them up at Home Depot or something. I say BULL****E.

(I never assumed/thought that)

(I never once questioned your citizenship, even the home owners and small businesses who employed the terrorist who flew into the WTC & Pentagon were really American citizens, they just made bad choices with out knowing what they were doing)
Where do either one of you get off trying to belittle, besmirch and question my "citizenship" because I'm an educated consumer who knows the value of a dollar?
The worse part about this "conversation", you really do know and really don't care.

Edited to add:
To be even more clear, you do not have to hire a non legit contractor in order to get the lowest price,
know what I mean holmes?
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Last edited by Slyfox; 12-13-2010 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by hoz49 View Post
"Fear of loss is a greater motivator than expectation of gain".

One basic tenet of salesmanship.
Us roofing contractors are in this thread to help homeowners decide which side of the line they want to place their chips.

You're telling them it's ok to go with the guy who doesn't usually roof, but sees a quick buck and will do it for much less. I'm not suggesting they go with white guys so they can feel patriotic, but that they should evaluate each company as much as the bottom line of the estimate.

You've had the luxury of being in the trades 40 years. I'd like to think I might be able to as well, but the way things are going...
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:50 AM   #26
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Hoz, if you are actually in business and legit like you say, you would know how these scenarios we are speaking of work. Obviously you don't know and don't care because your own personal roof is done. Good luck with it.

Like I said, with that much of a price difference, something isn't right and you just contributed to what is wrong with this industry just for your own personal gain.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:33 AM   #27
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I had no idea there was a cadre of contractors on this forum waiting to pounce on people who relay their own personal experience.

I've seen this type of attack happen on here before though.

This is a DIY forum isn't it? Most of these people want to save money and do the work themselves. That just about cuts out contractors doesn't it?

You people act as if I turned down YOUR bid. Which, except for jmiller would be impossible.

And what part of "check references" (in my OP) did you guys not understand?
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:36 AM   #28
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You've had the luxury of being in the trades 40 years. I'd like to think I might be able to as well, but the way things are going...
It's always feast or famine. Save your money, I doubt you are working today, with 4 inches of snow on the ground. (If you are the HO should run you off.)

Have hope, maybe another hail storm will come through next summer.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:24 PM   #29
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I think this side-work or not side-work debate has run it's course, so if the original poster does not come back with his/her clarifications, please let it rest on the other issues brought up.

As a side note, we professionally licensed contractors volumteer out time giving home owners our best opinions and judgements based on their original question posed and most often are capable of steering them in a position of additional clarity on how to proceed ethically and legally.

The poster getting slammed on currently did originally seemingly post that the crew doing the work was doing it as a "Side-Job", which now supposedly has been clarified. That should suffice for now.

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Old 12-14-2010, 06:54 PM   #30
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um... ok bit of side talk going on here.

Both company's quoted me for a 4000 sq ft roof,

I have a third and company that will be coming out in a few days to give us one more quote, i'll let you know what they say.

Guess i was a little surprised because the last roof we had done was only about 5,500 and that was for a 5000 sq/ft roof, although it was not a large slope and had no dormers also it was just a scrape off of the old shingles and reinstall of new so i guess it's not much of a comparison

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