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Stealthfox 08-31-2008 03:43 PM

wood roof frame on old brick house
my grandparents just bought an old brick house (at least 100 years) as a rental property....needless to say it needs a lot of work, i'm a flooring contractor by trade so my area of expertise is not roofs...

they hired some small time guy to repair/replace their existing roof which was leaking badly and had alot of rotting wood, well he clearly didn't know what he was doing and overcharged my grandparents in the process, its a sad situation i know

but the one problem i'm wanting to address now is thus....standing in the attic you can look out and see gaps and light shining thru where the vertical brick wall meets the roof pitch...the contractor added a layer of 1/2" plywood on top of the original roof deck which was the old plank style with varying gaps between each plank, the roof does not extend out past the exterior wall as is traditionally done nowadays, so i'm looking for some sort of diagram or picture that would accurately display the proper framing method for a wood framed roof where it meets an exterior brick wall

i.e. should there be some sort of top plate, fascia board combination, i need to know this because there gutters are really old and falling off, and some of them were damaged by the contractor when he tore off the old shingle layers, and as it is now it looks like its gonna be tough to mount new gutters up there, not to mention the weather thats gonna get inside the attic through these "gaps" i described above

thanks so much

DangerMouse 08-31-2008 04:27 PM

sounds like there is much still to do, but in these forums, pictures are ALWAYS a big help to all of us, helpers or readers. =o)
our imaginations either run rampant and we see huge problems when they are small, or the other way around for those of us with NO imagination whatsoever! lol but ya GOTTA have SOMEthing outside to remount gutters to..... even if the gutters are just vinyl siding curled and hung with strips cut from the siding! *blush* i know, i know, but it was all i had to work with and no $$$, but hey, it's working until i can afford the guys to come do the seamless.


Stealthfox 08-31-2008 08:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
ok, i tried to make a rough picture of what i'm dealing with, the exterior wall labeled "A" is at least two columns thick of brick, since this is a solid brick home and not just a brick veneer.....the top plate is not really that, rather a piece meal conglomeration of various pieces of wood in various states of rot, and as you can see the top plate is not really in the right spot, which is causing that gap between the end of the roof and the wall, the gap is about 1" give or take, and because the top plate is not in good condition you can see light all the way through inside the attic as mentioned previously

i need to find some way to A) fill the gap and B) mount a fascia board

i'm think expanding foam for the gap, and then maybe use metal straps on a fascia board and secure them to the plywood underneath the first row of shingles

is this a stupid idea? my grandparents don't have alot of money, so we can tear it all apart and start from scratch

DangerMouse 08-31-2008 08:18 PM

thanks fox, MUCH better. no idea is stupid. i see the stickler you have now... not too sure how i would approach that one. do the SHINGLES at least extend a tiny bit over the edge so water doesn't just pour down the wall? wowzers... i think we got the same contractor!
there's some good roofer guys here, i hope they see this thread and can help you. if you have mice, they chew tunnels through GS foam. if there are gable vents that's different. a lot of variables here. can you drill the brick and bolt a fascia to it that way? then you could easily add gutters.


Wildie 09-02-2008 08:08 PM

Would it be possible to install a pressure treated 2X4 on top of the outside course of brick.
If the existing top plate is secure, the 2X4 could be screwed to this.
Then a fascia could be fastened to the roof sheeting and this 2X4.
Some sort of flashing over wood would keep the weather out.

Stealthfox 09-03-2008 07:27 AM

unfortunately, there would not be enough room to squeeze a 2x4 in there, the gap at the opening is approx 3/4 but it varies here and there

DangerMouse 09-03-2008 07:43 AM

can you shape a 2x4 and slide it/them in at the edges? that may work. brick too crumbly to drill and mount fascia?


Ed the Roofer 09-03-2008 11:29 AM

I think that I would try to mount approximate 1" x 8" or 1" x 10" or even a 2" x 8" up to a 2" x 10", to the exterior surface of the brick.

The reason for the larger width boards than a typical fascia board, which is usually a 1" x 4" through 1" x 8", is so that the driling into the brick wall can wind up being lower than the top course or two of bricks, which if you would try drilling into, they would loosen the mortar joints if not careful.

Drill Slowly!!!

To do this, you need a rotary hammer drill with a carbide drill bit.

You also need to buy a Tap-Con fastening kit and Tap-Con screws with hex heads. You need to counter-sink them just enough into the wood fascia, so that the heads are not in the way of and scraping of the new gutters to be installed.

Now you have a wooden fascia board in place and can flush mount a new seamless gutter system to the wood. You can use the hidden gutter hanger brackets and screw or use spiral shank nails to secure them to the fascia. Use a small level in the bottom of the trough to ensure the correct pitch when hanging them so that the water flows adequately to the drop outlet for the new downspout leader pipes.

Also, install a sheet metal aluminum Gutter Apron Drip Edge flashing from under the bottom course of shingles into the gutter trough.


DangerMouse 09-03-2008 12:28 PM

"Also, install a sheet metal aluminum Gutter Apron Drip Edge flashing from under the bottom course of shingles into the gutter trough."

he'd probably want to do that FIRST, right Ed? (that was my concern with the shingle overhang that close to the wall.)


Ed the Roofer 09-03-2008 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by MdangermouseM (Post 154620)
"Also, install a sheet metal aluminum Gutter Apron Drip Edge flashing from under the bottom course of shingles into the gutter trough."

he'd probably want to do that FIRST, right Ed? (that was my concern with the shingle overhang that close to the wall.)


It depends on how high the top rear of the gutter sits. It can be done before or after, but before wiould be easier.

I just added that on to the end of my post as an after thought.


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