DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Roofing/Siding (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/)
-   -   Where do I begin? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/where-do-i-begin-88329/)

Leaky 12-01-2010 05:07 PM

Where do I begin?
 
Hello everyone.

I am desperate for answers.

We just bought a pre owned home last year, our first home , here in the pocono mountains. (5 minutes away from camel back mountain resort).

The home is 10 years old, as is the roof.

We have had extremely windy and rainy conditions since last night.. Almost reminded me of the aftermaths of a hurricane.

Yesterday we noticed a leak on the first floor and the second floor of the home.

Going up to the attic we discovered that there was water coming throught the shingles, and one area was even dripping water somewhat. An area which spanned about 20 feet was inconsistently wet.

Checking the ridge line we also found some wetness there along most of the planks (but nothing compared to the moisture down lower).

I got a ladder and went up to the roof of the house, and found a few shingles were sliding down, and the plywood was exposed in the area where the main leak originated from.

We called a roofer who came over and put a ice and storm guard over the affected area, about 8 feet by 4 feet.

He also pulled out a couple of shingles, which he correctly pointed out were not properly nailed down... Infact none of the nails were on the actual nail line, but a couple to 5 inches off the middle of the shingle.

He told us that putting a new roof in might be a good idea and that it might cost upwards of 15000 dollars. (:eek:)

The roof as 1300 sqft of area give or take.

He said our plywood still looks good. I don't understand where he came up with this 15000 dollars but I sure as h*ll cant afford that right now.

I want to ask you guys what are my options? I really don't want to get scammed.

As I have said this is our first home, and I am not a handyman.... But I can try if need be.

Help me roofing gods.. HELP ME!

What should I do?

PS my roof has a incline of about 30 degree angle. The roofing guy told me it was on the steep side. I'd hate to roll off that thing. :thumbup:

Ed the Roofer 12-01-2010 06:41 PM

Ask some of your neigbors for referrals to who they used.

You need at least 1-2 more estimates from professionals who have been in business in your area and intent on remaining there for the long haul.

A 30* roof is in the mid-range for steepness. Most roofers do not mind that pitch to work on at all, which would translate out to be about a 7/12 slope, just barely considered above a walk-on.

Maybe the nails were improperly placed, which actually is quite common for speed-demon installers without much experience and maybe they were actually where they needed to be. But, are you relying on this one repair/sales-man to give you the facts truthfully? Did you find him to be upfront and trustworthy?

Regardless, for $ 15,000.00 I would definitely get another referred opinion.

Ed

Leaky 12-01-2010 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer (Post 543888)
Ask some of your neigbors for referrals to who they used.

You need at least 1-2 more estimates from professionals who have been in business in your area and intent on remaining there for the long haul.

A 30* roof is in the mid-range for steepness. Most roofers do not mind that pitch to work on at all, which would translate out to be about a 7/12 slope, just barely considered above a walk-on.

Maybe the nails were improperly placed, which actually is quite common for speed-demon installers without much experience and maybe they were actually where they needed to be. But, are you relying on this one repair/sales-man to give you the facts truthfully? Did you find him to be upfront and trustworthy?

Regardless, for $ 15,000.00 I would definitely get another referred opinion.

Ed


Thanks for the reply !

So far I just contacted one guy and that was to stop the emergency leak . I am planning to call a lot of people.

I think the guy believed what he was saying, but i'm not sure he knew what he was talking about.


For example he called the house quite steep where as you are saying it is not.

I just got a rough estimate on the slope of the house and I got around 28 degree slope (using a piece of paper, ruler and a triangle calculator).

I don't know who to trust. I'm thinking about doing this myself.. maybe not the whole roof but just that 8 feet by 4 feet area.

I mean, is this normal for a roof to start leaking after 10 years?

I am also concerned that the roof leaking wouldn't occur just because the shingles alone are screwed up and that they are a secondary defense against water.

So does this mean more than the shingles is screwed up?

When the inspector inspected the house he said it was really a exemplary home, no cut corners.


Please keep your replies coming.

Leaky 12-01-2010 09:47 PM

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...t/DSC00193.jpg


I hope that works. That is the picture of the 2 shingles that the guy took off(had slid off).

Ill try and take some pictures of the roof tomorrow and see what you guys think

OldNBroken 12-01-2010 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaky (Post 543942)
I am also concerned that the roof leaking wouldn't occur just because the shingles alone are screwed up and that they are a secondary defense against water.

Umm, your shingles are the primary and only defense against water. It sounds like you may have a very poor installation based on the multiple areas and types of leaks as well as the shingles blown off being improperly nailed. That far off the nail line usually is not indicative of a fast and sloppy shingler, but rather someone who had no clue what they were doing.

As far as your inspector, it's not his fault. They look at the age and general condition of the roof and anything obvious. They do not investigate whether it was properly installed or not.

And if your roof is only 1300 sf, (even rounded up to 1500) $15K seems about $10k too high for a ballpark for an average shingle job. Like Ed said, ask neighbors and people you trust for referrals. Cheapest is rarely best choice but something doesn't add up with the numbers you talked about.

Leaky 12-01-2010 10:06 PM

Thanks for the reply. Can you see that picture btw?

And thanks for the tip on pricing. I almost had spit come out my nose when I heard 15k..

You know, its really hard to find people who are good at what they do these days.

Im thinking about just going up there myself and repairing a few of these shingles. I have no experience but I trust myself to put the nails in the right spot.

Ive been watching quite a few videos on diy, and reading these forums as well (some others too)..

Daniel Holzman 12-01-2010 11:04 PM

The life expectancy of a roof is related to the quality of the shingles, the quality of the preparation, and the quality of the installation. Shingles are normally rated as 15 year or 30 year shingles, exactly what that means is unclear to me. Warranties are typically prorated, and only apply to the value of the shingle, typically do not include the cost of installation, which is most of the cost, hence the warranties are relatively meaningless so far as I can tell.

The comment that the inspector is not at fault is correct so far as I can tell, inspectors rarely (perhaps never) actually walk on the roof, so can only tell the roof condition based on distance visual observation, which is unreliable.

As for you repairing your own shingles, well be careful you use proper safety measures to minimize the chances of falling off the roof, which would certainly be a bad day for you. You may wish to inspect the entire roof first, since based on your comments the roof as a whole may have installation problems, and a ten year old roof may be close to needing replacement. I did some shingling work on my shed, while it is not rocket science, it is a bit harder than you might think, especially if you have limited construction experience.

good luck.

Slyfox 12-02-2010 07:34 AM

Even if your roof is a 7/12 pitch it's still one degree above walkable so you should be very careful walking on it, especially with poorly fastened shingles that can/may slide out from under you as you step on them.

Like Ed and OldNBroken said, call family/friends, neighbors, co-workers and also utilize the phone book and internet searches.

Did the roofer tell you there is roughly 1300 square foot of roof or are you assuming that based on your square footage of living space?
With sloped roofs the square footage of roof will be higher than that of your square footage of living space.

Did the roofer happen to mention going back with metal, slate, tile, etc., instead of installing shingles again?
Those type of roofing systems come with a much higher price tag.

Leaky 12-02-2010 07:55 AM

Hey guys thanks for the replies.

Im sorry i was not clear, the house is 9 years old, and has 30 year architect shingles on it.

No he didnt mention that or anything about metal shingles etc. . He mentioned I might have to get new plywood put in thoe,(but after looking at it he said the wood is fine). He mentioned algae resistant shingles. That was it.

Believe me I dont want to do this on my own, but circumstances are sort of forcing me towards that direction (tough year).

I asked him how much to repair that small 32sqft area , he said something like 1200 dollars. I dont know much about shingles, but that sounds a bit high.
I will try and get some pictures of the roof when it warms up a little.

Thanks for the concerns about safety.

I have health insurance.. Not roof insurance.


Can anyone see that picture I posted earlier?

michaelcherr 12-02-2010 08:01 AM

It's very common for 15 year shingles to wear out in 10yrs if you have improper ventalation.
Your attic shouldn't be more than a couple degrees warmer than the outside air.
If the snow melts off your roof before your neighbors, that points to a venting issue.
Just something to think about.

In my area it's required to have tar paper down under the shingles. Some people I've talked to say the tar paper is what keeps the roof watertight and the shingles are just there to protect the somewhat fragile tar paper.
If you saw plywood, from outside when the shingles fell off, you have no tar paper.

Fixing shingles is a lot more difficult than installing them BTW.

Leaky 12-02-2010 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelcherr (Post 544191)
It's very common for 15 year shingles to wear out in 10yrs if you have improper ventalation.
Your attic shouldn't be more than a couple degrees warmer than the outside air.
If the snow melts off your roof before your neighbors, that points to a venting issue.
Just something to think about.

In my area it's required to have tar paper down under the shingles. Some people I've talked to say the tar paper is what keeps the roof watertight and the shingles are just there to protect the somewhat fragile tar paper.
If you saw plywood, from outside when the shingles fell off, you have no tar paper.

Fixing shingles is a lot more difficult than installing them BTW.

I also did mean I would install new shingles where the dammaged shingles were, is that what you mean? I plan on buying 20 or 30 shingles of similar type to do this with.
thanks for the reply.

I did notice that during the summer it would get extremely hot up there ,but we have a attic fan installed and I figured it was just taking hot air from the house and pushing it up there..

Right now going up there, its very cold, much like outside temp.

The guy that came said there was paper down there but it may have been ripped.

Im mainly going off what this one guy said. I will get more information and pictures as soon as I can.


I was also under the impression that these are 30 year shingles.

MJW 12-02-2010 08:59 AM

Yes, the pics work. Nailed way too high. Must have been some real hacks. You can try piecing some shingles in, but you should consider a new roof in the near future.

If you are surprised at prices, just take a look at some of the things posted in the thread. Things like risky, insurance, steep..... There is a reason professionals cost so much and probably the reason why the cheapo before you got a shoddy job. Now you are stuck with it. Goes round and round with these types.

A good reference would be a local lumber yard. The phone book and internet will print anything a company pays for. A word of mouth reference is real.

Slyfox 12-02-2010 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJW (Post 544206)
Yes, the pics work. Nailed way too high. Must have been some real hacks. You can try piecing some shingles in, but you should consider a new roof in the near future.

If you are surprised at prices, just take a look at some of the things posted in the thread. Things like risky, insurance, steep..... There is a reason professionals cost so much and probably the reason why the cheapo before you got a shoddy job. Now you are stuck with it. Goes round and round with these types.

A good reference would be a local lumber yard. The phone book and internet will print anything a company pays for. A word of mouth reference is real.

Word of mouth from family, friends, co-workers etc., is the best.
Word of mouth from the local lumber yard may be good or may be just a desk clerk/sales rep passing on the name of those who spend the most money in there yard.

I, Ed, and dozens of other contractors who post in this and other forums can be found on the internet and in the phone book, so altho it's not as good a method as word of mouth it's can and some times doe's work out.

Slyfox 12-02-2010 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelcherr (Post 544191)
It's very common for 15 year shingles to wear out in 10yrs if you have improper ventalation.
Your attic shouldn't be more than a couple degrees warmer than the outside air.
If the snow melts off your roof before your neighbors, that points to a venting issue.
Just something to think about.

In my area it's required to have tar paper down under the shingles. Some people I've talked to say the tar paper is what keeps the roof watertight and the shingles are just there to protect the somewhat fragile tar paper.
If you saw plywood, from outside when the shingles fell off, you have no tar paper.

Fixing shingles is a lot more difficult than installing them BTW.

Excuse my ignorance and I'm surely not trying to change the subject, but,
where do you guys get 15 year shingles?

Leaky 12-02-2010 10:44 AM

Hello all, Just had another guy come in give me a estimate,

He said he would do the whole top roof (17 squares by his calculations) for 5000.

He also listed what he would do.

Clean up and haul,

GAF 30 year shingles (timberline high definition shingles).

Tar paper

Roll vent (new)

New ridge vent and drop edge

new ice water shield

2 new 3" roof boots (previous ones were not installed properly)


We would pay half upfront, and half after the work is finished.

The company has been around for 28 years, (Di Bello's in the Pocono area)
and that he would guarantee any work done by him (not sure if he meant in writing) and he said as long as he is in business he will have someone come and fix it.

He also said he would fix just the sliding shingles for 500 dollars (they are sliding in several place on one half of the roof) and that that might be a wise idea , and that next summer we could see if any more shingles are sliding and make a decision then.


Can youg guys think of anything else that I should ask him, or if he is not including something here.

Thank you.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 AM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved