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Old 02-01-2012, 06:07 AM   #106
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I personally reached out to Norbord today. They are the company that makes the roof decking that was used. I spoke with someone, and also received the email reply below.

-------------------------------

Thank you for the e-mail and for sending the photos. To address your question after reading your e-mail and looking at the photos you provided here are some comments.

There are several things that can cause edge swell in structural sheathing:

- attic spaces that are not properly ventilated

- dryer,bathroom fans/vents etc are vented into the attic space

- water has penetrated the roofing material and getting to the sheathing (not likely in this case considering the roof area involved)

- improper installation of the sheathing

- the sheathing was wet prior to or just after installation and the roof was not allowed to completely dry and any required steps may not have been taken before the roofing material was installed, trapping the moisture between the roofing material and the sheathing

In your e-mail you say this condition existed when you moved into the house and that indicates the cause to be one or both of the last two points likely being the cause. This is not a structural or a radiant barrier issue but rather a construction issue.

I hope I have addressed your question.
Well, that E-mail covers everything that's already been mentioned except for product failure. Coming from the manufacturer, no big surprise.

I see they used Zip-Wall for wall sheathing. It's a shame they didn't use the Zip system on the roof.

By all indications, I see nothing in that house that indicates the builder cutting corners. From engineered lumber for floor joists, Advantech decking, Zip-Wall sheathing, cabinet blocking....all top shelf IMO.

I do agree with the manufacturer that moisture definitely played or still plays a role in the issue. The fact that every home in the neighborhood shares that commonality leads me to believe it might be a ventilation concern.

One thing that caught my eye in that last photo is the fact that they papered in the entire roof before shingling. That shows an attempt at least to keep moisture off of the roof decking. The problem with that is, felt paper is not completely waterproof. After it is wet, it will expand and become more permeable, wicking water through to the other side. The good thing is, that characteristic also helps to speed drying.

If the building got rained on between the time that paper went down and the shingles went on, it's a good possibility that edge swell would have occured. This also would lead to the sheets growing dimensionally, possibly enough to cause buckling at the seams.

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Old 02-01-2012, 08:33 AM   #107
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+1

What a worthless response from the manufacturer but to be expected.

They covered their arse in fantastic fashion there.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:11 AM   #108
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I looked, and I don't really have any good pics of the vaulted ceiling after the insulation went up, but before the sheetrock went on. This is about all I have. The vaulted ceiling is on the far right in this picture.

That insulation is definitely packed into that cavity - they definitely did not leave any room behind it for air flow... Are they supposed to as per code?
Well, IMO....there is your answer. It doesn't help that the house had water damage before it was finished either. Lots of moisture in that house trying to get out. Along with no vapor barrier and the roof isn't ventilated. Inadequate insulation to boot.

All that moisture in the house slowly gets through that craft faced insulation and is coming through the seems on the sheathing causing the underlayment and the shingles to buckle up.

Look at the instructions with the norbord product. It says it must be ventilated.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:34 PM   #109
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I went to the Solarbord web site and reviewed the Norbord OSB decking. Solarbord rates their 3/8" decking as acceptable for 24" joist spacing for roof decks. Since many builders install the minimum rated decking, you may well have the 3/8" board. Check the label visible from the underside.

With that in mind here are my comments. First, OSB (Oriented Strand Board) has an earned reputation for swelling and warping when exposed to minor amounts of moisture. This includes roof decking which is advertised to be treated for minor moisture exposure. OSB swells and delaminates more than most other engineered wood products with the exception of particleboard. Second, contrary to manufacturer's hype, OSB fails when it comes to deflection compared to standard plywood of the same thickness. Third, decking manufacturers notoriously overrate their products to encourage builders to use theirs over the competition (being thinner, the cost per SF is less). Thus they tend to promote decking that is not suitable for the spans listed. It may be structurally "safe" but it will deflect under its own weight. I think that this may be what you are experiencing. Lastly, neither 3/8" plywood nor 3/8" OSB should be used on any roof deck even with 16" joist spacing. Locally, the custom home builders never use OSB (of any thickness) on roof decks but rather plywood in 7/16" to 5/8" thickness spanning 16" centers and 5/8" to 11/16" thickness spanning 24" centers. In the case of apartment builders, they use the cheapest stuff available and their construction suffers the consequences. Your OSB deck is probably structurally safe but that doesn't mean that it will look good.

In my opinion, when you buy a custom home you have the right to expect the craftsmanship to be straight and neat as well as structurally sound. Otherwise you would have been happy with a mobile home.

The following OSB vs. plywood paper is probably a too but you might find it interesting.
http://www.civil.ualberta.ca/structu...engandBach.pdf

Rick
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:50 PM   #110
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I went to the Solarbord web site and reviewed the Norbord OSB decking. Solarbord rates their 3/8" decking as acceptable for 24" joist spacing for roof decks. Since many builders install the minimum rated decking, you may well have the 3/8" board. Check the label visible from the underside.

With that in mind here are my comments. First, OSB (Oriented Strand Board) has an earned reputation for swelling and warping when exposed to minor amounts of moisture. This includes roof decking which is advertised to be treated for minor moisture exposure. OSB swells and delaminates more than most other engineered wood products with the exception of particleboard. Second, contrary to manufacturer's hype, OSB fails when it comes to deflection compared to standard plywood of the same thickness. Third, decking manufacturers notoriously overrate their products to encourage builders to use theirs over the competition (being thinner, the cost per SF is less). Thus they tend to promote decking that is not suitable for the spans listed. It may be structurally "safe" but it will deflect under its own weight. I think that this may be what you are experiencing. Lastly, neither 3/8" plywood nor 3/8" OSB should be used on any roof deck even with 16" joist spacing. Locally, the custom home builders never use OSB (of any thickness) on roof decks but rather plywood in 7/16" to 5/8" thickness spanning 16" centers and 5/8" to 11/16" thickness spanning 24" centers. In the case of apartment builders, they use the cheapest stuff available and their construction suffers the consequences. Your OSB deck is probably structurally safe but that doesn't mean that it will look good.

In my opinion, when you buy a custom home you have the right to expect the craftsmanship to be straight and neat as well as structurally sound. Otherwise you would have been happy with a mobile home.

The following OSB vs. plywood paper is probably a too but you might find it interesting.
www.civil.ualberta.ca/structures/reports/SER199Zhao,ChengandBach.pdf

Rick
Thanks for the post - great info.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:55 PM   #111
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I have 2 appointments scheduled for tomorrow. Both companies coming out saw the pictures and were pretty surprised that this is a new build...

I was on the phone explaining the issue to one of them, and while we were talking sent him the email with the pics of the roof. He opened the email while we were still on the phone and blurted out: "HOLY , THAT IS HORRIBLE".

It made me chuckle a bit. Looking forward to getting professional in-person evaluations. But thanks a million to everyone on here. I owe you all for your advice and information.

As you can probably guess, I am not going away - I will keep you all updated as thing unfolds...
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:10 PM   #112
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I owe you all for your advice and information.
I can wait for my payment till later.,

I wish you luck.And PLEASE.,keep us up to date.So is anyone interested in taking online bets as to what the real problem will be?.,I have $100.,
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:16 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by stickner
I have 2 appointments scheduled for tomorrow. Both companies coming out saw the pictures and were pretty surprised that this is a new build...

I was on the phone explaining the issue to one of them, and while we were talking sent him the email with the pics of the roof. He opened the email while we were still on the phone and blurted out: "HOLY , THAT IS HORRIBLE".

It made me chuckle a bit. Looking forward to getting professional in-person evaluations. But thanks a million to everyone on here. I owe you all for your advice and information.

As you can probably guess, I am not going away - I will keep you all updated as thing unfolds...
Yes, please keep us updated. I think there well over 100 posts in this thread; that's a lot of people that want to know what the problem is and hoping this is made right for you without having to hire lawyers and have sleepless nights thinking your brand new beautiful home is your new nightmare.
May I ask again how the interior, including sheetrock and trim, got wet? Surely the home was weather tight before interior finish was started, no?
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Arkitexas View Post
I went to the Solarbord web site and reviewed the Norbord OSB decking. Solarbord rates their 3/8" decking as acceptable for 24" joist spacing for roof decks. Since many builders install the minimum rated decking, you may well have the 3/8" board. Check the label visible from the underside.
Hmmmm... I just checked the Owens Corning website to read about our shingles. This is what I found in their installation instructions:

Roof Deck:
6" Maximum roof deck boards
Minimum 3⁄8" plywood
Minimum 7⁄16" OSB

If you are correct, and they have 3/8" OSB up there, they installed the wrong thing... I wish I could peek up in the attic right now and look, but our child is sleeping and my wife would kill me if I wake her up!

Something is telling me that they installed the 3/8" stuff... I seem to remember that....

EDIT: What does 6" maximum roof deck boards mean?

Last edited by stickner; 02-01-2012 at 11:27 PM. Reason: added a question
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:21 PM   #115
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I can wait for my payment till later.,

I wish you luck.And PLEASE.,keep us up to date.So is anyone interested in taking online bets as to what the real problem will be?.,I have $100.,
The real problem is that we hired a builder.

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Old 02-01-2012, 11:21 PM   #116
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So is anyone interested in taking online bets as to what the real problem will be?.,I have $100.,
I think it's a combination of everything mentioned in this thread. The Perfect Storm, so to speak.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:25 PM   #117
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Yes, please keep us updated. I think there well over 100 posts in this thread; that's a lot of people that want to know what the problem is and hoping this is made right for you without having to hire lawyers and have sleepless nights thinking your brand new beautiful home is your new nightmare.
May I ask again how the interior, including sheetrock and trim, got wet? Surely the home was weather tight before interior finish was started, no?
No it wasn't completely sealed up... This is what it looked like. They were finishing the brick on the upper sides... It was open into the house... It was like this for a few weeks.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:10 AM   #118
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I'll bet that what I said is correct.

I have to ask, was the house heated and lived in before this problem occurred?

There is a ton of info that came out after the original post, and it was very important.

I don't buy the swelling of the sheathing. I posted my experiences and that would not show through those shingles. If it did, it wouldn't only show at the seams. It would be every 2 ft. on the rafters.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:07 AM   #119
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I'll bet that what I said is correct.

I have to ask, was the house heated and lived in before this problem occurred?

There is a ton of info that came out after the original post, and it was very important.

I don't buy the swelling of the sheathing. I posted my experiences and that would not show through those shingles. If it did, it wouldn't only show at the seams. It would be every 2 ft. on the rafters.
You said: "It's rather obvious there is a problem with the ventilation and/or insulation, and /or the vapor barrier."

When I crawl up in my attic today, I will take some pics for you and post them. Anything specific you want me to look for? I looked through my pics, and this is the only one I have that shows ventilation example.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:08 AM   #120
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I have to ask, was the house heated and lived in before this problem occurred?
No. This house was built in the summer, and AC was used. The heat *may* have been turned on at the tail-end before we took occupancy, but I don't believe it was cold enough to need heat.

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