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Old 02-03-2012, 07:28 PM   #166
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Wavy roof! Need opinions/advice


I was on a roof today that showed signs of horizontal seam ridging. I saw it from the ground and decided to check it out. Much to my surprise, the ridges appeared to be nothing more than buckling of the roofing itself, not the sheathing. The bulge was hollow undeneath and could be pressed down flat.

Here's my theory.

I know for fact that the sheathing was gapped. It is 3/4" T&G with no clips.

Roofing shingles get nailed above the exposure line which results in a second row of nails near the top of the coarse below it. When these two rows of nails span the seam and the sheets expand to take up the gap, they push toward each other resulting in the buckle.


I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but thought I'd throw it in the ring.

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Old 02-03-2012, 08:44 PM   #167
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And the vertical seems ghosting?
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:17 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by framer52 View Post
And the vertical seems ghosting?
No sign of vertical seams ghosting, but the horizontal seams are all showing slightly and it is definitely only the roofing that is raised. I don't see any reason why the sheets growing in length wouldn't show the same symptom though. I'm assuming the sheets expanded more in width than length.
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:13 AM   #169
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Wavy roof! Need opinions/advice


It looks like the buckling is at the joints of the sheathing. I'm just a Miami roofer, but I know roof sheathing should be gapped. An easy way to do it is start an 8c into each truss, against each sheet before placing the next one. If this isn't done, the edges could buckle up with expansion and contraction.
Oh, and after the sheet is set: pull the gappers. Trip hazzard,you know...
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:31 AM   #170
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Sorry for the thread hijack. It does help to keep it at the top of the new posts list.
No worries my friend. You guys have all been incredibly helpful, I don't care what direction this thread goes!
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:03 PM   #171
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just adding my name to this thread so I do not lose it....want to add a few comments later

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:18 PM   #172
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just adding my name to this thread so I do not lose it....want to add a few comments later

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Old 02-06-2012, 10:31 AM   #173
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Loneframer is correct on the OSB: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...on?full_view=1

That from my library on OSB article I'm putting together.... sorry I didn't see this thread sooner.
Fig.8: http://www.ewpa.com/Archive/2006/aug/Paper_266.pdf

Gary
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:17 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Loneframer is correct on the OSB: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...on?full_view=1

That from my library on OSB article I'm putting together.... sorry I didn't see this thread sooner.
Fig.8: http://www.ewpa.com/Archive/2006/aug/Paper_266.pdf

Gary
So, what are you saying? It's a ventilation problem??? Or simply blaming OSB products?

Like I said in an earlier post. I've seen OSB that was rained on so much that it swelled from 1/2" to over an inch thick and never saw it through the shingles like the pics here. These pics show the definite outline of the sheets.

Other pics show that the insulation and ventilation is inadequate.

I'm still open minded on this thread. Nothing seems to add up 100% for a real good solution or why the problem occurred.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:05 PM   #175
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OK stickner, don't mean to "hijack" but the reason I followed this thread was in post #1 and subsequent posts which showed the outside brick veneer of your home what caught my eye were your window sills. Then in post #80 when you showed pictures of the water leaks at the floor level it was like I've seen this before. AFter reading further in yours you determined your leaks were from the roof.

But I thought I'd quickly share my experience with you about those window sills which are called "rowlocks".
-The bricks are laid on edge to make the sill. I had identical sills on 7 of my windows on the front brick veneer of my home.
-Started getting leaks in the house after wind driven rains.
-There were counter flashing areas near the leaks so assumed it was the flashing.
-We replaced and repaired flashing.
-Leaks still progressed.
-After a month of checking, it was determined the rowlocks were leaking(the mortar joints between the bricks will break down and allow water in. If the window is not
flashed properly with weep holes, the water will get in the house.
-My remedy was replacing all sills with limestone sills.
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Last edited by hammerlane; 02-12-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:29 PM   #176
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@Hammerlane

Thanks for your post, but one of the only things I am absolutely 100% certain about is how the water leaked in. I'll do my best to explain.

On both sides of the dormer in the front of the house, the brick was not even installed yet. There was no brick, no flashing, no nothing. Then we got 9 inches of rain. It poured into the open sections on each side of the dormer.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:02 PM   #177
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OK stickner...just keep an eye on your sills. Over time, small hairline cracks may form in the mortar joints on the rowlocks. when that happens rain will get behind the brick veneer.

Just inspect the sills after each winter and keep a heads up.

A good product(don't know if we can plug products) for sealing cracks in mortar joints up to 1/8inch wide is ChimneyRx Masonry Crack and Joint Sealant.

http://saversystems.com/chimney-prod...-joint-sealant

I used this on my chimney last year on a lot of the mortar joints where I had cracks. And so far this year no efflorescence on the brick.

I had my sills replaced before I discovered this product or I would of used it on the sills.

Anyway keep us updated on the roof.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:32 PM   #178
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Do you mean the product itself is not good, or something happened with our particular boards (they got really wet and they installed wet product?)

My wife pointed out something interesting - one of the last couple houses is under construction and they have been leaving building stuff laying around - somewhat covered - somewhat not.

I am going to pay close attention to how the treat all the sheathing.
In my view these comments flag a big concern regarding moisture. The APA standards permit limited direct rain exposure for "EXTERIOR" rated products due to weather delays (a very loose parameter). On the other hand, your sheathing product is rated "EXPOSURE 1" for which APA standards permit "exterior exposure" (but not rain) to the underside surface only (such as an eave). This precludes any amount of direct rain exposure to either side and only "exterior exposure" to the underside. "EXPOSURE 1" also dictates that, before installation, the product be stored off the ground and protected from rain at all times.

My opinion of OSB is not very high. It is a wonderful thing that the wood industry has found a use for all those wood chips, but OSB board for building construction stretches the limits of the product's capabilities. It is best used where it was originally accepted - mobile homes where 2x2 studs, buckled floors, and aluminum wiring are standard.

Other previous comments indicated that, if construction met the building code, the contractor was off the hook. Not so. Remember that building codes are the MINIMUM acceptable level of construction which protects the safety and welfare of the public. Anything less, the government will step in and say NO. If the contractor advertises himself as a "fine custom home builder", "superb", "quality", "committed to excellence" or providing any other similar product or attribute, you may reasonably expect him to provide more than the dead minimum allowed by law. Furthermore, just because he has installed a inferior product in the rest of the neighborhood doesn't relieve him of the responsibility of living up to his advertising.

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Old 02-07-2012, 02:52 PM   #179
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Rick,

You are showing your age or lack of ability to change with the times.

OSB today is a different product than when it first came out. When used properly it is as good or better than the plywood products it has replaced.

To give you and example, the better houses built today use a product called advantec which is far superior product to any flooring product on the market.

As far as a roofing substrate, I don't care for 7/16 osb but I feel that 1/2" osb is Superior to plywood.

now, the product that was used on the roof in the OP's case may be entirely the problem. It would not necessarily be the OSB substrate ,but the combination of the reflective material is where i believe most of the problem lies.

By the way, I am old enough to remember my father discussing with grandfather that plywood is not a good product, similar in my view to your dislike of OSB today.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:45 PM   #180
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Rick,

You are showing your age or lack of ability to change with the times.
I'm sure my age is much to blame. But after being burned by OSB on too many occasions over 41 years (I'm 65) it's not likely I will never be confident in OSB performance around moisture. With regard to all products, I've learned to be skeptical of any manufacturer's claims, to rely more on actual field performance, and to attach more weight to other professionals' opinions.

In my experience I have found OSB to have only one characteristic superior to plywood - flatness. This is an advantage in some areas of construction but shouldn't be a factor in decking and sheathing if the flatness is within rated tolerances.

In my opinion neither OSB nor plywood, having a EXPOSURE-1 rating, should be used where rain is possible. An EXTERIOR rating would be far wiser.

Rick

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