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Old 08-04-2014, 03:04 AM   #1
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Hi,

A few questions hopefully someone can copy paste then answer as they go along.

I'm putting up vinyl siding over asbestos tile siding (but these actually have no asbestos).

There's black paper and sheathing under the asbestos. I assume 5/8th or 1/2" sheathing. I'm putting foam board over the aesbestos. I haven't researched which is the best foam board for the north east US region, so if anyone can give a recommendation for something I can find at home depot/lowe's or most lumber yards, please do, otherwise I'll find out.
Can I tyvek tape the foam board seams instead of getting dow 'weathermate' tape? Because that's what their tutorial video shows but dow makes tyvek tape also, so I'm unsure why there's a separate tape, but I can email them if necessary. Because I don't think I'll be able to get weathermate without a special order.

When I nail the foam board up, I'm worried about hitting a wire/pipe etc in the wall. It's not like drywall where I can pick out a small spot to check what's behind there. So I'm thinking to use screws that are just shy of passing through the sheathing (so if the foam board is 1/2" and the sheathing is 5/8", then I'll use 1" screws).
I'll never hit a stud with 1" nails, so I might need the extra grab a screw. provides. I'm thinking to predrill everything because nailing might make the tiles crack and fall and create a bulge in the wall even with the foam board pressing it, but maybe there'll be no problem if I work my way up with nails so the foam board tightens to the wall and prevents any broken bits from falling? If it suggested to predrill and screw, then I'll do that for the siding also. I'd use the same ring caps on the screws that foam board and tyvek nails have.

Should I also put tyvek over the foam board? The tyvek residing pdf just shows 'leveling board' and then tyvek over it for a wood clap board house being sided over with vinyl, so is this leveling board the foam board and I should also tyvek it, or is it OSB or something which that would only need tyvek? Or should I email them?

side question, If I didn't want to foam board over the asbestos, is tyvek needed? I read someone said half contractors' quotes said not to and the other half said to tyvek.

And, another non-foam board idea just wondering, would it be a bad idea to add furring strips every 1' or so over the asbestos tiles to get a flat surface and then tyvek over the furring and nail the vinyl siding to the furring strips? would the air pocket between the tyvek and asbestos siding cause a problem?

thanks.


Last edited by gunner666; 08-04-2014 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:32 AM   #2
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


....I'm confused. Is it asbestos or not?

If not, there is no reason to leave it intact. Even if it is, it can be removed with little to no exposure risk.

To you question, use nails and locate on the studs. Shouldn't be too hard once you figure out where the panels are nails and snap out chalk lines.

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Old 08-04-2014, 07:37 AM   #3
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Just nail the foam board with 1-3/4" galvanized roofing nails. You're not going to hit any wires or pipes. You can tape the seams with any kind of tape.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:46 AM   #4
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Screws have to small a head, take longer to install, cost far more then roofing nails. 0 reason to use screws.
Old siding needs to go, for a couple of different reasons.
It's going to shatter in places and fall down behind the foam.
It's a real pain to try and nail through.
Adding that foam is going toad a whole lot more prep work.
All the outside corners, window and door trim is going to have to be built out so the trim sits out beyond the foam.
Posting some pictures of the home will help with future questions on this subject.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:54 PM   #5
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


the tile shingles I just found out do have asbestos. I know I have to build out the trim, but that's no problem. I read screws are better than nails for holding siding., but I'll research some more before to see if for some reason screws would cause a problem. I know how to screw into the center of the siding slots and not fully tighten to allow expansion. No, there's no such thing as snapping lines 16 Oc on a 50+ year old wall and assuming I'm hitting studs, duh. I'm going to just use screws/nails just short of passing the sheathing. I have a respirator and protective clothing and will predrill everything, shouldn't be too bad for the foam boards, since I can do the four corners, then predril the whole wall all at once then go back with the screws instead of predrill > screw everything like the 'Dual Drill' selling point. Or I might nail it if the foam board prevents it from bulging.


I guess I'll see what my home depot has for foam then research it for my region and if I must use a special weathermate tape instead of tyvek tape.




still wondering this though
side question, If I didn't want to foam board over the asbestos, is tyvek needed? I read someone said half contractors' quotes said not to and the other half said to tyvek.

And, another non-foam board idea just wondering, would it be a bad idea to add furring strips every 1' or so over the asbestos tiles to get a flat surface and then tyvek over the furring and nail the vinyl siding to the furring strips? would the air pocket between the tyvek and asbestos siding cause a problem?
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:22 PM   #6
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


i am doing vinyl siding right now. i am removing my old asbestos(probably) siding. it is coming of pretty easy.

i was told on here :
leave the old siding on = use fanfold.
take the siding off = use 1" xps. this is what i am doing. along with housewrap.

lets see a pic of what your dealing with.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:50 AM   #7
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


what I'm dealing with is just a basic
/\
| |

Times 2. One side has asbestos tiles, the other has t11

approx 560 sq ft total, half is asbestos.

how much did it cost to dispose of the asbestos, and did the process take long?
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:10 AM   #8
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Vinyl siding is never screwed!
Making this way harder then it needs to be.
Post a picture of the siding on there now.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:35 AM   #9
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Another person trying to reinvent the wheel.Strip the old siding.Add fanfold or foam.Tape seams.Add flashing then apply new siding with nails.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:01 PM   #10
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner666 View Post

approx 560 sq ft total, half is asbestos.

how much did it cost to dispose of the asbestos, and did the process take long?
thats nothing. i am guessing i have 2000sf.

i am putting it in the trash can.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:42 AM   #11
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


that's messed up to put asbestos in the trash can. The workers might be covered in it and never know and toxic runoff from assumed toxic-free landfills (or something along those lines). But could they make it more difficult to dispose of?

Screwing vinyl siding is no problem as long as they're flat headed and not tapered screws and of course are exterior grade, preferably stainless steel, and are installed like siding nails i.e not fully tightened and in the center of the vinyl slot to allow expansion. I read plenty of people used screws no problem. How many people hit a nail too hard and leave it so the vinyl can't expand because it's harder to back the nail out than reverse the screw gun? Would be nice if my screw gun had a depth setter that set depth ABOVE the surface and not below the surface like for sinking drywalls screws to make the screwing go faster. I can't find an example but it's basically just a rod that clamps onto a drill/screwgun. I'll probably find screwing them down then backing them out a tad goes fastest than trying to get it right on the initial screw down.

I'm predrilling through the siding which has no asbestos but is similar, and then screwing foam board with washers on the screw (which is fine and how metal studs are foam boarded). I took pictures of the foam boards I can get at home depot/lowes and will email them to see if they even need tyvek over/under them with viyl and if I can use tyvek tape for the seams, and it most likely not need tyvek. The fanfold is like paper thin and only R1, so I'll use the thicker stuff.

And I'm using screws that are just shy of passing though the existing sheathing under the existing tiles so that no wires or pies are hit since I don't have an X ray or thermal device to find exterior walls and all the other methods to find exterior studs are not acceptable given the small margin of error having wires nailed along side of them. It will hold fine with screws that don't go into the studs. It certainly will hold inward and outward better with screw threads than a common shank nail, and downwards, it's not like foam board and vinyl siding is going to move hundreds of screws that are rated to hold like 170lbs each in a picture-hanging type scenario.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:17 PM   #12
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Nothing toxic about asbestos.

Disposal requirements are mandated by the local area environmental guidelines.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:57 PM   #13
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vinyl over aesbestos - how avoid nailing into wires? which foam board is best?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Screws have to small a head, take longer to install, cost far more then roofing nails. 0 reason to use screws.
Old siding needs to go, for a couple of different reasons.
It's going to shatter in places and fall down behind the foam.
It's a real pain to try and nail through.
Adding that foam is going toad a whole lot more prep work.
All the outside corners, window and door trim is going to have to be built out so the trim sits out beyond the foam.
Posting some pictures of the home will help with future questions on this subject.
Joe is right on the money, as usual. The siding you have is brittle, and is not easily nailed through. WHen you try it will fracture like joe says and slip down behind your work. Remove it, and you gat a chance to inspect your sheathing, add electrical outlets where you want them in the house, and install new ASTM D226 Type 2 felt or house wrap. The only foam I would use would be EXPS which is now called XPS (Extruded Polystyrene) DOW Styrofoam (Blue Board) It does not absorb water, and is about R5 Per inch of thickness. I think I would put vertical nailing strips to pack out the studs, as I do not like the idea of nailing through the foam. Packing out the corners and trim at doors and windows must be done. Most definitely get rid of the AB/NonAB siding, or it will annoy you no end. I like the idea of new felt, battened vertically, with XPS between, then siding nailed to the battens with Maze DHD Galvanized Roofing Nails. Don't use imported nails, IMHO

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Last edited by jagans; 08-07-2014 at 08:03 PM.
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